Abundance

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson, welcome to Cloudlandia.

Dan: Welcome. Welcome to Cloudlandia. Which gets more interesting every single week.

Dean: It really does. So we have. We were away last week because we were both live Streaming the Abundance 360 conference. And. Yes, we haven't spoken. I'm anxious to hear your take on it.

Dan: Yeah, well, I. My main focus, as always, is the longevity part, which was superb.

Dean: It really was.

Dan: And it seems to be going faster than any other A360 Focus. From year to year. There seems to be more progress. And I think it's the one area of abundance that is personally interesting to everybody. You know, another year, another five years, another 10 years. We're all interested in that.

Dean: I think you're right. Absolutely. Or at least. And I mean all the three deep around it.

Dan: Three deep, 3D printing, not so much. Artificial intelligence. It'll. It'll arrive when it arrives and when it arrives. When it arrives. But it's already arriving and we're getting the benefit of it. Yeah, but the longevity stuff is personally, personally uniquely interesting to every human being, you know, and so I think. And it's very interesting if you take the total time of abundance every year. The longevity section claims more of the time. The other one was the Amazon guy who is quitting to join an organization called Rebuild Manufacturing. And that's a big one. That's a big one. That is a huge one. You know, so. And I liked him. I liked him a lot.

Dean: Yes. What struck me this time is I was looking with a lens of seeing where on the curve a lot of these things are like on the six Ds of, you know, the end of it being democratized. Right. Is the final end of it. And you think about some of these things that we're talking about, like AI is really sort of still in the deceptive stage right now in terms of what's happening. And everybody, you know, and same with VR, really. Everybody's really sort of hot on VR, but they're equally as hot as they were eight years ago when we started. And we're still no further than we were eight years ago. I think in my observation, that's my

Dan: take, went through the entire exercise on Thursday. I came out with an even greater appreciation of zoom.

Dean: Oh, yeah, yeah. That's.

Dan: I think, I mean, zoom is here. I mean, zoom.

Dean: Yeah, exactly.

Dan: It's not something in the future. It's here, you know, and it's.

Dean: Zoom is at the stage now, if we look at it, that zoom is democratizing Access to learning, to gathering, to anything that's removed any obstacles. You know, when you look at the. Not needing to be in any physical location, not needing to travel to. You think about in developing nations where people are walking, you know, two hours a day to get to a place where they could go to school to learn, you know, and you start to see now with the. I think the Internet itself is getting very close to the point of being democratized, where once the satellites are everywhere and. And it's beaming down, you know, streamable bandwidth of access to the entire world, then that opens up now Cloudlandia to. You're always. You're everywhere in Cloudlandia all at once. Right. When you're in. You're in. You can get to any point in Cloudlandia without traveling the distance to get there. And it really struck me that we're in a lot of these. This is what's so, I think, endlessly fascinating about a topic like welcome to Cloudlandia, that we're essentially, we're getting to kind of walk in the footsteps of what it must have been Galileo and Euclid and Newton, establishing the. The laws of science and physics around the physical world, that as we're unfolding into Cloudlandia, all of those rules are gone and we have new opportunities like there's new rules of physics in Cloudlandia and there's new rules of geometry and all of this access.

Dan: Well, you know what it is, Dean, I was thinking, because I'm writing my next quarterly book on zoom, using the. Using, you know, the zooming ahead. I call the book is Zooming Ahead. I've done exercises in coach, and I've been really insistent on this that like it or not, we're going to talk about zoom. Okay. And the reason is this is the first technology. First technology in 30. Going on our 32nd year of coach, where I felt that it benefits every strategic coach entrepreneur every quarter to make a gain in this area of capability. And I've never felt that way about any technology before.

Dean: And, you know, when you said it, you're at 25. This is the 25th of those books now.

Dan: Or this is book 26.

Dean: Yeah, this is book 26. So in all of the 25 that preceded it, this is the first book that I can recall that is revolved around a specific technology or a specific tool.

Dan: Yeah. And again, because I think it's more than a technology. I think it's a shift. It's a sudden fundamental shift of how a single individual can operate in the world, how A single individual with a company can operate in the world and we have the proof of it. We've started, we've started three from scratch virtual workshops since September. 107, I think. 107 total signups, brand new signups, 26 different countries.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yeah. And I said, never in our wildest dreams could we imagine how we could do it in the way we were doing it.

Dean: Deployed. Yeah.

Dan: And all we'd hear, you know, constantly is, well, when are you going to bring this to such and such a place? When are you going to bring it to such and such a place? You know, and I'd say, well, you know, you have an advantage. You're from such and such a place, and you're the only one from such and such place here, and so you have an advantage. But that was a temporary answer. And now anywhere you want us to be, we're there.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. It's, it's a shift of. I don't know what the analogy is and you know, in history, but, you know, it's just a fundamental shift.

Dean: Well, this is where I think this is the age now.

Dan: I think it's like electricity. It's like elect. It's like electricity.

Dean: Well, that's exactly it. So there we go. That's where I'm, that's where I was going. That, as I was thinking about these, we've talked about kind of these asymptotic curves that have fallen into where we're in 2021. All of the things, all the things being digitized have kind of reached that peak where we're not going to have an exponential improvement in the creation and distribution of music, for instance. Right. All of that is, is at the peak level. We'll still see improvements, but they'll be incremental. And so we're getting very close to the point where a lot of these things are starting to reach that democratized stage, which is the peak of it. Right. And you, you think as close to anything like access to music, if I look at my, you know, was dematerialized and now demonetized and now democratized, is that I, on my Alexa, my Amazon Echo, because of my Amazon prime membership, Amazon prime music is available on my Alexa. So I can literally have access to all of the songs without, without having to, to pay a fee. Right. And same thing with, with one Spotify membership, you can have access to everything. And creators also have access to all of the, the market place as well. And so you start to see these, these things. And that's, I think, where we're. Where we're starting to see some of the amazing advances here is once we realize that these things, like you look at YouTube as an example, may as well be a utility, you know.

Dan: Yeah. Well, it's really interesting. I. I had an experience the other night, and I wanted to tell you about it because it's a departure from. It's a departure from my project. So in July, I will have spent three years without watching television. I haven't watched television, but I was. I was. I think it was on. I was on Quora, because I get Quora every day. I get a little thing from Cora, and it's usually about the Second World War. And they. They kind of know I'm a Second World War history nut. And I was going down. But the sidebar. There was a sidebar on the. And it was showing various YouTube videos of World War II sort of thing, and one of them was Russian. It was a Russian movie with English subtitles. And it's. I came in on a section where the German high command. 3. Three general. Two generals and an admiral were surrendering to the Russians, the Americans and the British.

Dean: Okay?

Dan: And. And then it was about 12 minutes, and it was kind of gripping, and it said, this is from a movie called White Tiger. So I went to YouTube and I went on. I went, you know, looked what the movie was, and you could download it for free. Okay? So I downloaded and I watched the entire movie, and it was very, very gripping. And. And this. I want to talk to you about something because this brings us something to mind, because Peter Diamandis has this thing called. What's it called? Future. Future Loop.

Dean: Future Loop? Yeah. With Evan.

Dan: Yeah, Future Loop with Evan Pagan. And it analyzes what you're interested in and then will, you know, search the web every day to feed you what you're interested in. And Peter told me about it about six months ago, and he says, like, he says, I'll get you on it, you know, at a special rate, and I haven't taken advantage of it. And I was trying to figure out, why haven't you taken advantage of it? I was sitting there.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And I said, because it's reinforced what I already know, and that's not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for what I already know. I'm looking for things I didn't know I was looking for. So my way of approaching the Internet is to have constant surprises. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I didn't know that. I'm not looking for Things that I found out yesterday and now they're reinforcing what I did yesterday.

Dean: I don't think it has to be, I don't think it has to be an or. I think you look at this as an. And that. I think that's not going to stop or stifle your ability to do that as well. But it may be an intellectual shortcut to at least get you in the direction of the things that you are interested in or historically have shown a pattern of being interested in and use it as a jumping off point. It could be a moving sidewalk alongside.

Dan: Could be. But when I, you know, I do my searches and I have about 12 different sites that I go to every

Dean: day and I would argue, dan, that those 12 sites are doing what this is doing. Like you're, you know, you're kind of saying I go to these 12 sites. So there is some predictability in it that somebody, your lens is going through that same filter of these 12 sites. You're just surprised within the context of what those 12 sites are presenting to you as curation.

Dan: Well, and sometimes they're a jumping off point to other sites.

Dean: That's what I mean. Could be, yeah, that might be an amplifier of it.

Dan: But what I notice a lot about the technological model is that it feels that what we know about you yesterday has a predictability to it. So I'm pondering that. I'm pondering whether that in fact is true. He's always looking. I think what the only predictability that my pattern would show is that he's always looking for something that he didn't know. But they can't say what topics or what areas or anything about it. So I'm resisting the notion that technology knows anything about what you're going to look for.

Dean: I think though that the, you know, I think unwittingly or you know, non. Obviously you're sort of setting yourself into that loop anyway in that these six sites are 12. These 12 sites are essentially doing that for you below the surface. But it feels like somebody has to kind of gather and decide what they're going to report on, you know, so it's happening.

Dan: Yeah, but that wouldn't be any different than going. That wouldn't be any different than going to the library in 19.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And looking at the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Dean: Oh no, it would be very different. It would be very different because going to the library you've got infinite. Everything is there and you're self directed in the choice that you're going to make. Right. You've got access to everything. So you're going to choose what's interested to you, but you choose to go to these 12 sites and jump off from what they're presenting to you. Yeah. That's an interesting.

Dan: No, no, I'm just saying that I don't know if my approach. I mean, I have a lot more. I have a lot more information available.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Now than I did in 1955. And it didn't require. And yesterday didn't require a walk to the library. Okay.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: Shortcut. Yeah. But I think my basic operating mode is exactly the same today as it was. You know, when I'm trying to see how I've changed in relationship to technology. And it's.

Dean: I saw a great meme. I saw a great meme that said, you know, things are different today. And it was a cartoon of, you know, from 1980s, everybody on the train reading their newspaper. And then today, everybody on the train looking at their phones and it's. Nobody's changed. It still is the technology available to us to engage our attention.

Dan: Books were and are still the major. Probably the major preoccupied. You know. I mean.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Because there's more book sales every year and the line between ebooks and hard copy books seems to have stabilized at around 30% ebooks and 70%. And that's been true for about seven years now.

Dean: Yeah. I noticed for myself. For myself, I noticed that my actual. My reading time is substantially less than it was in the past now. You know, I take in a lot more information stuff, but, you know, in terms of sitting down for, you know, an hour to read one particular book is. There's much less of that going on in my life than there was in the past. Do you find that, or are you.

Dan: No, mine. Yours is up basically because I don't watch television. And so that freed up an enormous amount of time. And Covid kept me at home, you know. So. Yeah, I've had two things happen. I have a, you know, not watching something that happened. It'll be an 18. So July 18th. I just, you know, I'm just not going to watch this anymore because it was, you know, it was kind of, you know, it was kind of, what can I say? It was kind of introducing turbulence into my day that I didn't really felt that I meant, I meant I needed. And then being locked down since last March from travel and, you know, any kind of travel, I got about 30% of my time back with no travel time.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And. But, but, but I'm at home and I Said, you know, I read. So I probably knock, knock off a book a week, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: For the last 12 or 12 months now, I would say I'm more and more going to fiction rather than nonfiction. So, you know, and it's kind of funny because there's. I'm discovering all these detective stories are usually homicide detectives. And. And they're about Berlin, you know, and. And Berlin, a city where almost any creepy thing that Annapolis wants to portray was probably true. You know, it's. There are cities, you know, that you think of New York being one of them, London being one of them, but Berlin was even worse because they had the Nazis and then they had, you know, they had the Stasi, the East German, you know, the East German police force. And for example, you can't think of a plausible murder homicide plot taking place in Toronto.

Dean: You can't think of a plausible murder?

Dan: No, no, it wouldn't be plausible that there was like a. There, there was, you know, murder homicides, you know, homicides going on in, In Toronto. You know, like, first of all, I think even.

Dean: It's very rare.

Dan: I think even the criminal class in Toronto only worked nine to five.

Dean: You know, it's. I. This was a odd thing, but that was years ago. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. I don't think criminals work nights and weekends in Toronto. I think they, you know.

Dean: Well, so one of our realtor friends was shot in Toronto a few years ago in. In a restaurant. In the middle of the restaurant, guy walks in and singles him out and shoots him and walks out of the restaurant and has never seen again unsolved mystery of. Of this guy getting shot in a. In a restaurant, executed.

Dan: And he died.

Dean: And he died. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, that's, you know, odd. But.

Dan: But that would be front page. That would be friend page.

Dean: Yes, exactly.

Dan: In New York. Might make the eighth page in Los Angeles. Might not make the paper at all.

Dean: Yeah. Wild, isn't it? Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. But there's just certain cities and Berlin seems to be one. And yeah, I was talking to Babs last night because I just discovered a new one and a new detective series. Peter Ritter. This guy's name is Peter Ritter. And I said, you know, why is it that I'm always intrigued by a homicide murder series, detectives that takes place in Berlin, and at the same time, I have less and less desire to ever go to Berlin.

Dean: That's funny.

Dan: Yeah. I said, I get a feeling that it's creepy. I get a feeling that when you're there, it's creepy. And maybe it's because you know too much about the history, you know, and yeah, it's really, it's really, really interesting. I'm really noticing that people below 40 don't know any history.

Dean: That's true. Yeah, that's true. You know, it's.

Dan: They live in a perpetually changing presence, but they don't really have. They don't really have any knowledge of the past that they think. Yeah, they think that's important.

Dean: Right. That was why I wanted to at least introduce Philip to the, you know, the history of, of America.

Dan: Oh, yeah.

Dean: The modern things and all that.

Dan: And what, what. And what a good, what a good place to start.

Dean: Yeah. And he thought that was fascinating, so that's good. But he's all back in regular school now, so there we go. Now it's the history. Interest is replaced with gaming. That's their whole world, you know.

Dan: Well, we. Yeah, well, gaming is a hidden universe that I think is going to have more and more power as we go forward.

Dean: Well, that's Cloudlandia. They're gathering in there. I mean, it's like what happened on Wall Street.

Dan: What happened on Wall street this past week was really interesting.

Dean: Yes. Yeah. They're like, wait a minute, you can't do that. That's our role.

Dan: Yeah. Well, what I got is that part of democratization is going after bullies.

Dean: Yes. Well, that's what, that's this whole short traders cancel culture.

Dan: Yeah. And short traders, you know, people who are big hedge funds but they're short traders, have been kind of bullies. I mean, Elon Musk talked about this three years ago, you know, that they. Yeah. That they. I almost got the sense over the last three or four years that short traders thought that they were invulnerable, that they could do things to other people, but nobody could do it to them. And this guy From Massachusetts, the 34 year old who got this whole, you know, the Game Shop thing going, and he. Gamestop or Game Shop. I forget what it is. GameStop or Game Shop. Stop.

Dean: Yes, stop.

Dan: GameStop. Yeah, yeah. Which is a funny name actually, when you think about stopping the game. But.

Dean: Right, right.

Dan: But what he noticed was that certain shortcutters were exposed. The short traders were exposed. And it's where there's evidence to perceive that the stock that they're shorting actually has value and that there are people who are going lawn on it. And he was going lawn on this for, I think, two years. The guy who started this and he said this guy, and that was this one short trader and he Says he's way too exposed. He's way too exposed. And if we can just start the price going up, he's going to panic. And that's exactly what happened. The guy lost 3 billion. He lost $3 billion.

Dean: Isn't that amazing?

Dan: And two other big hedge funds had to bail him out or he would have, he would have got all his, he would have got all his loans called and he couldn't, he couldn't actually do it. But what I, what I think about it is, it's just, it's kind of like the jungle, you know, after a while the little animals just say, you know, we've had enough with this one. Predators are predators, but this predator is just out of line. We're going to take predator down. And that's always happened in the mainland and now it's happening in Cloudlandia. So I believe that every short trader in the world had a very long 72 hours halfway through this week. In other words, they said, wait a minute, wait a minute, what are we doing here? I bet there was more transformation in the short trading world in a three day period in the middle of this week than has happened in the last 10, 15 years.

Dean: Well, it's a realization that the, yeah, that banding together, that's the means to communicate with people, you know, create a concerted effort is all through Reddit. That was, that's pretty amazing, you know, that you can rally, you can rally your troops.

Dan: Yeah. And now, as I understand it, I, I got my first deep reading in it. This Reddit is just this universe of universes, but they have some basic mindset rules. They have some basic rules of whether they're going to let you be, you know, an active member. Not an active member, but it's kind of loose. It's just sort of a mindset thing that kind of holds it together. Yeah. If you get 3 million people and they each put 10,000, that's a lot of money.

Dean: Yes, that is a lot of money. That's all.

Dan: That's 30. That's. Yeah, yeah, that's, I think that's $30 billion.

Dean: I think so, at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan: And, and so anyway, so there's a force there, you know, and it's so funny because Trump is getting credit for it. They said this is, this is Trumpism in the stock market. And I said, he's probably doing something else today. He's probably in his mansion in Florida and he's doing something else. I don't anybody's getting credit for it. This is Trumpism gone wild. And I said, well, I said that kind of shows that he's left a mark, that you can credit things to him when he's not even doing it.

Dean: Yeah, that's really, you know, and it's interesting now that he's moved back to. To Palm Beach. Yeah. Mar a Lago. Now they're now there after, you know, the law or rule change that he got to convert it from a residence to a club. Now they're saying, okay, well, now you gotta. Whatever it was, now you can't live there. You went through the whole process to convince us that it wasn't a residence, but it was a club, which there were some advantages or whatever at the time.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And now he can't. Now he can't live there, is what they're saying.

Dan: Well, whatever. But, but I think the shift, as you were saying, has happened on a. On a big scale, and I think that the democratization is really a big one. And, you know, when you discover a new land for a while, the original discoverers become basically the establishment. You know, when you. You can look at it on the mainland, you know, the.

Dean: Yeah. We get to be the cartographers. Yeah.

Dan: Gosh. And then cartographers, families.

Dean: Yeah. Whoever discovers the territory kind of looks right.

Dan: And I think the same thing happened. So, you know, the big titans, the big corporate titans that are in there, they were kind of early explorers who went and. And they claimed a lot of the territory for themselves. Yeah. But it's kind of interfering with progress at a certain point. If you say, I've got this and I'm going to hold it, then you're not part of the force of progress anymore. Holding. Holding really isn't, you know, it's. It's not innovative. Holding is not innovative. It's defensive and protective. So I'm seeing a lot of that happening. For example, my sense is 10 years from now, there will be a. There will be other social media platforms that are as bigger, bigger than Facebook, as bigger, bigger than Twitter, as bigger, bigger than Google.

Dean: Well, it might be trumpbook USA.com now. Just got lost.

Dan: Yeah, whatever. But I think it's bigger than him. I think it's just that,

Dean: you know,

Dan: you know, he was a leader who got people thinking in a particular direction.

Dean: Yeah, yeah. But it definitely feels like we are. We're definitely shifting now at a point where, I mean, with. Taking Trump off of Twitter was a big. That was a big move. And then the AWS deplatforming parlor and that whole. I mean, we're definitely at a point now where we're splitting. We're split. There's going to be ideological splits in access to.

Dan: In Cloudlandia.

Dean: In Cloudlandia that you can really have your own version of it where you're, you know, sheltered, where the only things you hear, your eyes only see in your ears, only hear what your mind is looking for. You're. You're in a world where there's not going to be any. We're going to be able to shield from dissent. I don't know whether that, you know, I don't know. Is that. Is that. I don't know. Who knows what that's gonna be, you know? Well, if all you. It's not here.

Dan: It's not uniform. Because if I look at my. All my reading of political books since I've been interested in politics, which goes back to my teen years, most of what I've read is on the side that I don't agree with.

Dean: Well, you're. You're different, though, in that you're also a person who thinks about their thinking. And, you know, at. At that level, that level of awareness and stuff is not the standard. And when you look at it, I'm constantly reminded that IQ is a quotient, and the average is 100. And you start to see that that capacity to think about thinking and to have some sort of, you know, elevated thinking process is not reality for most people. And so when they're presented with, when they, you know, turn on the TV or turn on Facebook, it's all each side yelling loudly in opposition to the other side. And now if we get to a point where you are going to a place where you can speak your freedom, your truth, without any dissent, without anybody calling it fake news or without anybody opposing what you're saying, if everybody's rallying and cheering, I wonder what that. Because that's something that we literally have the potential to set up, just an echo chamber where you're only seeing and hearing things that.

Dan: Well, that's what. That's what I was wondering about with the Future Loop, whether it doesn't set up echo chambers, you know, because. Well, first of all, I believe that for the last hundred thousand years, I think what people have developed with is a material sense. So they have part of their, you know, their daily existence, which is a material sense. You know, eating enough, having shelter.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, worried about dangers, worried about predators and everything else. And then the other sense of spiritual sense, where you have a sense of the transcendent. You know, in other words, you have a thing saying, you know, I'm just in one place and it's just me and a whole bunch of other people. But I bet there's something bigger that we're part of. That's what I would call the spiritual sense. It's an invisible sense that, yeah, you know, I'm living from, you know, whatever number of years, starting in the 1940s still sometime in the 21st century. And I said, yeah, but that's just, you know, given what history is, that's actually a pretty brief moment compared to, you know, 100,000 years. And roughly they estimate, and I've seen about five or six sources and they're basically an agreement that the number of human beings who have ever lived is about 100, somewhere between 100 and 110 billion people. So there's 8 billion on the planet right now. That means that we've already, you know, previous to us, it's close to 100, hundred billion people have lived. And they developed certain senses about what physical life was, what. And they had this sense of the transcendent. And transcendent, you know, over time, usually meant God, Okay, Usually meant God. And then there was organizations which focused your attention on that. But starting about two centuries ago, two and a half centuries ago, they were saying there is no God. Okay, but people still have a people, I think genetically almost still have the way the brain is developed. Yeah, they still have a spiritual sense. Okay. What I notice, and what I notice is if you deny that there's any God and religion is rubbish, that doesn't mean your spiritual sense goes away. There's, there's a vacuum there and I think it gets filled with passionate causes that people are in right now. So they, you know, and I, I sense this in the whole A360 singularity movement, that it's an attempt to make technology into kind of a religion, techno religion.

Dean: Singularity.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. I said, you know, when. And I talked to Ray Kurzweil about this first time I met him and I think he said this from stage and then I talked to him personally about that and he said, you know, our family was completely non religious, but he said my parents were real big, that we should know what religion was. So we took a month or a quarter studying every one of the major religions and he said, I think we went through about 15 or 20 of them. So anyway, then I was reading his book on the singularity and I said, you know, he knows what a religion is, he knows how it's structured, he knows the checkoff points, you know, if you have a religion, if these seven things are true. And he checked them off and I said, I think singularity, whether it's conscious on this part or intentional on his part, it's kind of like a replacement religion for people who don't have any religion. And I think globally the environmental movement is a religion. I think the, you know, the inclusiveness and diversity movement is another religion for people who don't have religion. Yeah, yeah. Racism, anti. Racism is a form of, you know, it's a religious, religious feeling. No borders. No borders is sort of a religious, religious feeling. And so I'm very conscious of it and I can tell how people talk about it. And one thing about a religion, you don't admit any dissent against your religion. There's the faithful and the heretics. You know, there's. And I think that the outlandia is experiencing a lot of that, you know, that refusal to have any dissent to what you're focused on or what you're believed at right now. Yeah, but it doesn't really, it kind of cuts you off from actually thinking about your thinking. Uh huh.

Dean: I agree. That's what I mean is, I don't know, nobody's really pulled off this grand utopia yet of what, I don't know what people think that Parlor and, and Trump book and whatever these other ones are that, that you're going to be able to actually like, you know, speak your mind, get your free speech kind of thing. That I think that that's the big problem is that people are viewing dissent

Dan: as

Dean: going against their free speech. Right. Where it's actually, it's actually the proponent of free speech.

Dan: Well, it's actually getting you to grow your, your understanding of what free speech actually is.

Dean: Yeah. It's just that the collective, the collective cancel culture is really what is the.

Dan: Yeah, well, it's very, very interesting. In, in London, in Hyde park, they have a place which is called the Speaker's Corner. And anybody can get up there and make a speech. Any, you know, when the park is open, anybody can get up there and you want to be there. I mean if you're really intent on getting an audience, you do it during, you know, day, daylight hours and. Yeah, and, and the police, they have police there, you know, the bobbies. And there's a story about, you know, people shouting at the speaker and the bobby coming up to them and says sir, this is speakers. Connor, you're disturbing the speaker.

Dean: Yes, that's great, I love it.

Dan: And you know, and they said if you want to be the speaker tomorrow. Well, you know, get in line and you can be the speaker. But when the speaker's up there, kind of let. Let the speaker speak, you know, and

Dean: you can say Moses, Moses Nimer used to have a feature of that on City tv, Toronto Speaker's Corner, where they had video boxes set up and you could go and say your part or whatever, whatever you wanted to broadcast on the. On tv. That's interesting. So that must be where he got that idea from London.

Dan: Yeah, well, it's. It's really part of British legal culture, you know, I mean, the, the granting more and more that, you know, I mean, British law is all based on the freedom of personal property. If you go right back to the beginning, it's unique in the world, the strength with which the unique status of personal property has grown. And we're the beneficiaries of it. I mean, the United States, because it. There was some real properties, there was some real property here to get a hold of, you know. I mean. Yeah, and. But it's really fundamental and that's why I'm putting all the emphasis lately on the protection of your intellectual property. And, you know, and I'm really thinking through this deeply right now, you know, for a specific personal reason that we're involved in right now. But the more I go into it, I realize that you won't be innovative if you don't protect your innovations. You'll get to a certain point where it's not. It's not worth the effort of coming up with a new innovation if other people are going to steal it or you don't get credit for it. You're not. You're not acknowledged. And. And so I think that one of the books it might be this year might be next year. I'm writing a book, one of my little quarterly books, and it's called you'd Attention, your property. That basically your attention is your most fundamental property that you have what you give your attention to. First of all, it's worth an enormous amount to you if you use it properly, but it's also worth a lot to other people if they can get your attention. And my sense is it's worth a

Dean: lot to you if you can get other people's attention on your intentions. That the winning thing. That's where we've got that, where people are actually giving their. I'll sell you my attention on your task for. Yes, whatever it is, that's something that's.

Dan: But my sense is that this is going to come to a head with A Supreme Court case sometime probably during this decade, where people are going to say to someone like Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey, you're using people's attention in ways that's making you a lot of money. And maybe we have to establish that if you use 15 seconds of somebody's attention, that you have to pay them a little bit for that. That'd be a new economic model.

Dean: Interesting. That we get.

Dan: Yeah, that. Outrageous.

Dean: Interesting. And they would. No, no, they would. Yeah, yeah. That. That could be an interesting thing because they would get.

Dan: Well, it's an interesting thing to think through because I think there is an underlying annoyance that.

Dean: Well, that may be accelerated with the Apple decision here. You know, the Apple decision of making it, not the default that they're able to track you through your Apple device. Or maybe what you're saying is Facebook is seeing this as a threat to them or it's going to hurt them. And so what you're saying is that may be an opportunity where they say, if you let us do this, we'll give you some of the earnings from yourself, from your attention.

Dan: Yeah, Yeah. I mean that. You get air miles. Yeah, you get attention.

Dean: Right. Yeah.

Dan: You get something in return. You get something in return because he kind of had, like he said, Mark

Dean: would argue that what you get in return is you get to use Facebook.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, well, that. That's ground zero now. Let's go from ground. You know, let's go from ground zero, you know. Yeah. I mean, he can say he still thinks we're all schmucks for even giving. Giving him his attention. He's just seeing how far his schmuck empire can go.

Dean: Yeah. Wow, this is. It's wild. You know, when you start to think

Dan: about, we're back, you know, we're right back at the start of a huge new philosophical period, you know, and the last one, I think really happened with Gutenberg. You know, the politics and economics since 1455 have utterly changed. You know, they've utterly changed. To live between before 1455 and visit 2020 would be. You'd probably die of the shock. Okay.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But if you went from 455 to 1455, a thousand years, there probably wouldn't be that much difference. But we come to these big discontinuous jumps in history, and I think we're. We're in the early days of another one right now.

Dean: Yeah, that's. And I was. You know, I'm not. I mean, I kind of meant it when I was saying how we're really at the situation where, you know, having these conversations is really like Galileo and Newton establishing the new science, new physics of Cloudlandia, because it's. It's very different, and we don't even realize it yet. I mean, the full gravity of what we've got.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You know, we still kind of. There's our condition.

Dan: There's a. There's something I always think about, especially with the First World War. So First World War started in, you know, in 1914. So August 1914, and it wasn't until the middle of 1916, two years into it, when the British already had 200,000 dead, that they had to actually put in place a draft. Everybody was volunteering for the first two years. And today they wouldn't volunteer. They wouldn't volunteer on the first day.

Dean: No, no.

Dan: And you'd have. And you would have draft riots today. You'd have draft riots within the first 30 days.

Dean: Yeah. But war has evolved also, even beyond the physical force of it, you know.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Where it's the physical, you know, linear.

Dan: Yeah. Well, Peter Zion going to be speaking. Peter Zion, who's speaking that, you know, at our summit in the three.

Dean: I'm excited about that.

Dan: Yeah. And he said that the US Is just going invisible with its wars. He said, if you take a look at how the US operates over the last 20 years, he said, most of what's going on is completely invisible, and it's because of the special for the drones and the Special Forces. He said, you know, yeah, we don't have to kill a thousand insurgents. We just have to know the car that their leader is driving in, and. And we just hit him with a drone, you know, and it stabilizes them for a month or two. And then the next guy up, next guy up, we know the car that they have to travel, and we. And they have these new drone. They have these new drone rockets that aren't even munitions. They're like that. They're like whirlers. They go right through the top of the car and they just shred everything inside the car. But there's no collateral damage. Yeah. If you're 50ft away from the car when it hits, you might get hit by a piece of metal or something like that, but not by a concussion. And so he said, the US has learned its lesson that keep. Keep your battles out of the headlines, you know, don't. People will accept war if they don't see it.

Dean: Right. Wow. This is just the. It's almost. When you think about the things I was saying to somebody the other day that the thinking about the new. The new physics of Cloudlandia, that we don't even realize what we have access to. Like, we're so. It's almost like the elephants that have been so conditioned that we can't go outside of this radius, you know, and then when the. The. Then when the.

Dan: The.

Dean: You know, the restraint is removed, we still don't go beyond that because we're just conditioned. That's.

Dan: The restraint is in the brain.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan: It's not on the elephant's leg anymore.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I mean. I mean. And that's who we are, you know, And I. I mean, the smartest of us has restraints, you know, I mean.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The one. The. The person whose mind goes furthest afield still has just as many as strain. There's borders that that person comes to and.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And doesn't cross the border, you know, so. So that's why I feel it's not about the individual, it's the collaboration. Because if I collaborate with you, then I get access to a whole new territory.

Dean: Mm. Yeah, I get that. And that I don't have to worry about.

Dan: I don't have to worry about that territory because you're taking care of that territory. You know, I just have to take care of my territory and have access to. Have access to other territories. So the whole thing about, you know, in the emphasis in the school system and I think in what I'm seeing in, for example, at the Zoom revolution over the last year was one of the biggest events of my lifetime. But there wasn't one mention of it at Abundance360. They were using Zoom, but there was no mention.

Dean: Right, Exactly. Like almost ironically, that they were using the big thing that allowed it to even happen. Yeah, exactly.

Dan: And I thought it was better. I actually thought it was better.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, I. I enjoyed it a lot more than being there in person. And. And. But then they're talking about all this great new VR is this is going to make Zoom like nothing. And I went into it and I said, gee, this is really. This is like starting a car engine with a crank, you know, I mean.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah. I said, this is really clunky. This is really clunky. I said, yeah. And. And why isn't there advantage. Why is there an advantage to being an avatar rather than the Dean I know and love? You know, I don't want to see.

Dean: Exactly.

Dan: I agree. I want to see. I want to see. I want to see Dean and his full. His full humanity. I mean, why are you taking humanity? Humanity is what makes it interesting. Why are you taking it into an avatar? You know?

Dean: Yes, I agree 100%.

Dan: Yeah. So I wrote to my team because they, you know, they. Two of my team members were on, and I said something be aware of. I said, we'll see from year to year where it goes. But, yeah, I think it's gonna like. I bet if you. If you had access to the way the military. The US Military uses VR, it blow your socks off, because I think there's a lot further advanced than.

Dean: Yeah, I bet you're right.

Dan: And also the gaming. The gaming industry. I bet their VR is way, way ahead of.

Dean: I haven't really spent much. I haven't an Oculus, but I haven't really spent much, much time on it.

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: I just can't. I don't know.

Dan: I think the traditional trifecta holds up. The trifecta where new ideas get started and progress.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Are weapons. Weapons and war.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Adolescents and young people playing games with things not the way they were intended.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Important.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I said, I bet that was true in ancient Rome, and I bet it's true today. Those are the three entry doorways where new technologies move forward most quickly.

Dean: What was the first one again?

Dan: Weapons and war.

Dean: Weapons and war. Right. Weapons and war.

Dan: Adolescents and then young people and toys.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Young people in games, essentially.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And then porn.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And then the marketers get at it.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody plays a part.

Dean: That's exactly right. That was.

Dan: Everybody's got a room. I don't.

Dean: I don't care if they.

Dan: If. If.

Dean: If you're.

Dan: You're smart about it. Everybody's got a. Everybody's got a role.

Dean: Yeah. It's funny. It really is. Well, I mean, what a delight. These conversations are just. They go so quickly,

Dan: the covers.

Dean: Anyway, can you.

Dan: Can you just send me a piece of information and it's about a particular app that you got that. It's a linking app that you can start in the center, and then you can create all sorts of connections.

Dean: So.

Dan: And you can create it. You mentioned it once.

Dean: Chloe. Work.

Dan: Yeah, could you just send me the. Could you send me the link for that?

Dean: Yeah, I'd appreciate that.

Dan: Okay, thanks. All right, we'll talk to you soon. Yeah, we'll see you next week.

Dean: Okay, thanks, Dan. Bye.

Dan: Okay, bye.