Freedoms in Cloudlandia

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia, Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Ah, Mr. Jackson.

Dean: Well, daylight savings can't trick us.

Dan: No. We have a foot in each world, you know, a couple times a year where, you know, the mainland world does a shift. And I always, I don't know about you, but spring always depresses me. And the shift in the bottom actually always kind of, you know, it sort of energizes me because I know something's been, I feel something's been taken away from me.

Dean: I am going to say the same thing. Do you know what I often do is I often don't exercise my extra hour in the fall right away. And sometimes I'll save it and I'll say, today I'm going to use my extra hour.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: But I feel like there's no choice. They just take the hour right away.

Dan: They just take the hour. Yeah. Yes. I mean, you know, I mean, I truly believe that you and I live in a self generated world. I won't say it's a democratic world, but it's a self generated world. And anytime, you know, a conversation comes up in, let's say, strategic coach workshop, you know, about how we're being deprived of our liberty, and I said, okay, well, let's just check this out. First of all, give me the facts that tell, tell you that other people are taking away your freedom. Okay. They do. And I said, well, yeah, I can see how you can see that. Yep, yep. And I said, but let me ask you a question. If we plan your next quarter and you have four goals, one is to increase your freedom of time.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Secondly, your freedom of money. Thirdly, your freedom of relationship, and fourth, freedom of purpose. Can you do that regardless of what's happening in the world? And they all say yes. And I said, well, one of them is true. They're taking your freedom away or you can grant yourself new freedom. I said, one of them. One of them's true. You know, it depends on which one you choose.

Dean: That's it. Yeah, that's something. It is. It's so great to know, you know, we're completely playing a different game. It's like they've been, I've been speaking at some different events over the last couple of weeks here by Zoom. And one of the things that I've been sharing that comes up is that is the VCR formula and the, you know, it's met universally with clarity that people are like, oh, wow, like now they see. It's like giving somebody 3D glasses. When you see, when you can now see how things are you know, organized. You can see where your place in that game is, you know, and it's okay that you don't have to be all of these. These things. Yeah.

Dan: Very interesting from a historical standpoint. I use the Gutenberg Revolution a lot for early science and the. You know, I mean, it's. There's just a lot of things that happen differently as a result of movable type.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Having printing presses with movable type. But a couple of them were really, really interesting that haven't been really talked about that much. And one of them, that people started reading alone because before that, books were. Books were rare. Books were very expensive. And only, you know, certain, you know, people were actually literate. You know, they were usually church members, and there were lawyers, and, you know, the members of the church, they would have been monks or priests or anything else, and they were literate. And generally speaking, the printed word was used in public where someone who knew how to read would read the words for everyone else, and they'd sit and listen to it.

Dean: I wondered about that. So books were read aloud, like, as an event?

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: I mean, there were. There were scholars. I'm not saying there weren't people who were scholars, but they were very, very, very small portion of the population. And it wasn't a general thing, but what happened with books. And, you know, I don't know how much. How many years or decades it was, but it became widespread that people would have personal libraries, and these were. You know, they'd have to have wealth because they'd have to pay. The books were very expensive. But they collect books, and then they would have a library and they would go in and in the evening. Well, usually it would be during the day because lighting was very, very expensive.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Evening lighting. And they'd read. They'd read. And then there were sort of pamphlets which were a big. A big sheet which was folded into 16 pages. You would fold it once, you fold it twice, and that gave you eight. And then you'd fold it one more time. You had 16 pages, and they printed as a pamphlet. And, you know, people would be in coffee houses, they'd be in bars, and they would read these pamphlets, and then they discuss them. And I think that's going on right now. I think what you and I are experiencing right now with Zoom especially is very, very similar to a way of bringing up ideas and talking about them. That, to a certain extent, is beyond the knowledge and beyond the control of whoever thinks they're in charge.

Dean: Wasn't that something. What was the you mentioned pamphlets. Wasn't it the Reynolds pamphlets or were they called Reynolds pamphlets or Reynolds papers? What was, what were they called?

Dan: Well, the big thing was they didn't bind them, they just sort of folded up like a map. Okay, right. And, but what they would do that each of the, you know, when you have a map, there's, there's, you know, rectangles that are created by the fold.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And what they would do is they would print each of those folds as a separate page. But then it could be, then it could be folded up and. Because binding was very expensive and.

Dean: Right.

Dan: So you would just fold it up and, and this is the way that, you know, regulations were printed up and sent out. This was financial, you know, financial rules and you know, you know, currency exchange rates. A lot of it was commercial. Commercial. It was just that there were, understand, rules for trading. There was a huge trading network across northern Europe all the way from England to Russia.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And it was called the Hans, the Attic League. And it had about, in total, over a period of about three or 400 years, it probably had three dozen cities and some would, you know, blink out, new ones would come along and everything like that. But what they did is they created standard policies for currency exchange, for letters of credit, for rules, you know, contracts, contract rules. And their main way after Gutenberg, of actually letting everybody know what the rules were. These, these folded up pamphlets. Yeah, yeah, but, but the change that I see, and I want to go back to your vcr, is that in the mainland it was all about what you were going to do, you know, like over the course of a lifetime and, you know, you're going to learn your reading, writing and arithmetic and you know, and you're going to be a good student and you're going to pass tests and you're going get into university and you're going to go through undergraduate university and you're going to specialize in something that will get you a good job and then you will be in that job and you'll move up the ranks. And it was all about you. But it was all about you. You know, it was really irrespective of who the other people were that you were doing this with. And I think with zoom and you know, all Internet things that have developed over the last quarter century. I believe that to have just a focus on yourself, you're missing out on 99% of the action and what you've done. Yeah. What you've done, as you've simply said, don't think about the vision of what you as an individual, a lone individual can achieve, think about what could be achieved, period, regardless of who did it. And you put down your visions and then you say, well, what are all the capabilities that I have? Well, I have mine, but I can also put down technology, I can also put down networks. I know other people's capabilities. And the Internet, The Internet is a huge capability. Zoom's a huge capability. Mobile phones. Mobile phones are a huge capability. And then how much reach can I have if I add my vision plus the capabilities? What can multiply all that out in the world?

Dan: And my sense is that you can. From my perspective, I'm just looking at my own personal experience for the last year, which is yesterday, by the way. That was our last. Yeah, right, right, March 13th. I said, well, first of all, my own ability has jumped enormously. But so has our company, so has our, you know, program, and so have all the entrepreneurs in the program, those who have been positive and, you know, and enthusiastic about acquiring Zoom as a new capability. This is a real shift. And the VCR is a much more sensible way of looking at your future than how you might have looked at it just as a single individual.

Dean: I agree. Yeah, especially it's so, it's so. It fits so perfectly with the free zone frontier. It feels exactly like the underpinning of, of that, in a way.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You know, that there's something. They fit hand in hand. And you know, you look at now this week, I think we should, you know, probably we're documenting, you know, what's happening with. I think we've mentioned NFTs. Yes. Last week, non fungible tokens. Well, this week, you know, people, the digital artist sold a digital artwork for $69 million.

Dan: Yep. Jack, where she put the very first tweet up online is having an auction. And so far the highest bid that I saw most recently was 2.5 million for the first tweet.

Dean: Right. And now. And Rob Gronkowski just had an auction that completed last night on some of his greatest super bowl moments that are all, you know, numbered and limited editions of them. But then there's a one of one that is, you know, I forget what they call it, a refractor card. I don't know what that means yet, but there it comes with a physical representation of it, I guess signed by him. And that was auctioned off as well. And I went over and looked at what the, what the NBA is doing. And the NBA is selling digital moments. Things like Lamelo Ball's first, you know, triple double

Dan: from LeBron's greatest dunk.

Dean: Yes, exactly.

Dan: And I'm thinking, man, William Shatner's teeth X rays.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Did you know that?

Dean: I did not know that.

Dan: Yeah, he took, he took, you know, verified X rays of his teeth and he created cards limit limited, limited edition number of cards and he's putting them out on the Internet and they're being purchased. They're being purchased.

Dean: This is just, it's crazy. But that's. Now, you know, we're seeing. And I read a really thoughtful article that I think it was in the New York Times that was, it was either the New York Times or cnbc, one of those that was talking about it as. It's not even, it doesn't matter what is happening right now, that it's art or that it's, it doesn't make sense. What's going on, what it's ushering in is this, you know, the, the structure around it of having digital ownership of something.

Dan: Well, can I tell you something? You were into this, you were into this 20, 25 years ago. It's just didn't have a name for it. And your, your, your analysis of a real estate market and breaking it down into rights, and then you created a one off for each real estate neighborhood. Okay. And, and you could purchase that. And as long as you purchased it, it was yours. No one else could have this knowledge. So that's, that's an nf, that's an nft. First of all, it was digital. You had already. Yes, it was digital. They were buying a digital non fungible, non fungible token. Okay, so you had already done this. You know, you had already done this.

Dean: I thought about that with, with stop your divorce to what I, When I first did that digital ebook, it reminded me, it was really to explain it to people that I'm basically selling a. It's not actually like selling a book. It's like selling a picture of a book that, you know, it doesn't take away. I can print as many of them as you need. There's zero cost to distribute it. And we've sold, you know, a lot of them.

Dan: Yeah, well, here's the thing. You know, I've gone deep for a specific reason. I've gone very, very deep in understanding intellectual property law. You know, and there's about six major categories of intellectual property protections. One is a patent. Patent. You have trademarks, you have copyrights. Then you have things like trade design and you have, there's even a thing called trade secrets. Trade secrets. And so this is property. And already you Know, I mean this had already entered into the digital world a long time ago. And an example is a Supreme Court. Supreme Court case that's been 10 years in the making. And Oracle with a very, very good foundation, can prove that the first 10,000 lines of code which actually created Google search engine stolen from Oracle.

Dean: I remember you mentioned that.

Dan: Yeah. And they actually have a letter from Google to Oracle that says, can we license the first 10,000 lines? And Oracle said no. And then Google went ahead and did it anyway. Okay, so the interesting thing is what the court case, I think it'll probably come due this June. You know, it's probably in this session. But the way these things are settled, you know, let's say the court rules in Oracle's favorite. The way this is settled is that there's a penalty that the loser has to pay. And that is because of these. What portion of your revenues since the moment you started using it is owing to Oracle because you've been improperly living off of someone else's property and you haven't been paying that paying them property. Well, that those 10,000 lines of, you know, of coding are non fungible. Google will say, no, they're fungible. And Oracle saying, no, they're non fungible. And the Supreme Court will decide who. Whose case is right there.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yeah. So it's very interesting. I think it's just property law moving into the, into Cloudlandia.

Dean: Yeah. And I wonder how this, like what. It's going to be an interesting thing to see how this plays out. Like how does, how. Because what I think they were talking about in the article is this idea of smart contracts that now you can like at the source.

Dan: Well, it only exists because. It only exists because of blockchain technology.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You couldn't even have these discussions, you couldn't even have these examples if you didn't have a new technology called blockchain, which means that the record of, let's say your real estate formulas for each of the neighborhoods, this can be entered into a record with millions of other records. And to change your record, you'd have to change the other million records. Yeah, yeah. So there in the digital world, you know, there are countries like Nigeria and Russia, the literally have been making a gross national product for the last 20 years of just stealing other people's, fooling around with other people's information and stealing other people's information. And there's been no recourse to that. And now there is.

Dean: How would it enforce? Like, so let's say here's one of the things that I think of that one of the, you can help me think through these, the algorithms here. So let's say that because a lot of the things that I have are things where you've heard me talk about the scale ready algorithm, where I've got, I have a lot over all of this history of my career here. I've got a lot of things that are what I call syndications, where I figure out, I was just looking at one the other day, I've got an ad for reverse mortgages to two different ones that are, you know, that have run in, in many different magazines and been used as postcards. So I look at that. If I create something like that as an NFT or thinking out loud here, that, that what. The way that I've been kind of licensing those things to people and what I'm kind of thinking about it going forward is is there a way to use that to get a, a royalty or a. Yeah, because it seems like it's difficult to track things like that. Like how would that, how would that help or how would that aid in a situation?

Dan: Yeah. Well, first of all, I'll start with the consumer point of view on this rather than, rather than the innovator or the inventor. Okay. So I'll start with the consumer. People are paying lots of money for things which are essentially fraudulent or fake. Okay. You know, and I mean all my lifetime, you know, probably my adult lifetime, I've heard about fake pain, you know, forgery, payment.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Free currency itself. You have, you know, you have fake currency and then very, very expensive, you know, like jewelry, like Rolexes and everything. And it's been an incredible problem. Diamonds, you know, there's all sorts of things. So from a consumer standpoint, I think it'll be an app, you know, on your cell phone. And if you, some, you're offered something, you'll say, let me check this, the, you know, the, the digital certificate and the nft, it's an NFT app. And I, I put it and say, I'm sorry, this is not listed on Blockchain. This is not a real thing. So what it, what it's going to require is that if you have, you create something, then you have to list it and you have to get a, you know, it has to be digitized and you have to get, you know, some sort of signal that tells you, yes, this has been digitized and that's what the consumer will pick up when they, it would be about anything. It would be about, you know, William Shatner's Dental X rays or. Right, James. Junk. Junk, or that is junk. Now, that might.

Dean: That'd be a separate of. What do they call it? Yeah, that'd be an nsw.

Dan: An NSW

Dean: not suitable for work.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. Well, I've just introduced a whole new category.

Dean: Oh, that's right. Quick, let's. Let's create an NFT of this moment right here. The genesis of the NSW nft.

Dan: Yeah. So the whole. The whole thing is, the central rule of the marketplace is that things are only worth as much as someone wants to pay for them.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. And so when people say, well, this is really silly, a digital painting for $69 million, this is really silly. I said, well, what's silly about it? You know, what's silly about it? Yeah, there's nothing silly about it. I said, somebody out there thinks that this is worth 69 million and they just paid for it. That truth, that proves to me that the value of this is $69 million. And people say, but it's absurd. Absurd. They're school. Yeah, I said, yeah, but put a school teacher out there and see how much people will pay for the school teacher.

Dean: Right, exactly.

Dan: I'll put the painting here and the school teacher here.

Dean: Would you? Yeah.

Dan: Which would you pay more for? You know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Well, this is immoral, you know, I mean, the past. No, no, that's not how the marketplace works.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Things have value according to what people will pay for them.

Dean: Right.

Dan: That's the central thing here. So people say, well, there'll be. People will be putting everything out there and selling it. I says, no, a lot of it will just be worthless because there'll be no buyer out there that wants to pay for, you know, wants to pay for your latest Kleenex.

Dean: Right? Yeah. This is.

Dan: Wow. It's really taking the pricing mechanism of the marketplace like yours, it's going right to. We're almost approaching the point where you have a thought, you do something, and then you register your expressed or articulated thought, like Jack Dorsey with the first tweet, you know, he puts it out there. Now, I know for a fact somebody will buy that tweet for 2.5 million, you know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And. And it'll be part of their estate, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: They have this and they have the NFT proof that this is actually real. Yeah.

Dean: So how has this changed? Have you thought. Have you given any thought to.

Dan: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Dean: Tell me how you're thinking about it, then.

Dan: Well, for you.

Dean: Well,

Dan: everything we've done, you know, everything we've created in Strategic Coach because your company and my company are, are intellectual property companies. The, you know, the breakthrough blueprint, the eight profit activators. That's intellectual property. So what I'm saying is that I'm going to investigate with John Farrell, who's my go to IP lawyer in Silicon Valley, and I'll say, John, how are you approaching this right now? You know, what's the latest thinking? What's the protection of that? And, you know, I actually do an interview with him and I'll just get a recording of the interview and then, you know, I'll just send it out to all the Strategic Coach clients. You first, you know, and, and then I'll get that interview registered as an nft.

Dean: Oh, see, Right, right, right.

Dan: Well, or John could. Or John could. Yeah, whatever, you know, but I think that if you want to say this really simplifies intellectual property protection, you know, I don't understand the difference. You know, trademarks, patents and everything else. It's an nft. It's an nft.

Dean: Yeah. And it's first, I guess, first in. If you're first in, that's time stamped and dated and locked in concrete or digital concrete.

Dan: You gotta be quick. You know, there will be a whole, there'll be a whole new branch of law that develops out of this. You know, who was first, you know, who was.

Dean: Right.

Dan: But, but that happens with patents, that happens with trademarks and copyrights. That's already a game, that's well established.

Dean: Right.

Dan: So my sense is that everything you ever knew about protecting something in the mainland, all that is now the complete logic of that, the complete attitude towards that is now just shifting completely to the Cloudlandia.

Dean: Yes. Wow. So this is a big, like, infrastructure moment. I mean, that's like a, that's what we're establishing, all the laws here.

Dan: Well, let's take Old Town Road. We've talked a lot about the, the teenager in Atlanta. Let's talk about the one in Copenhagen or Amsterdam. Yeah, every time he does a beat, he should get a NFT registration for every one of his beats.

Dean: Well, I think that the music industry of anything is pretty. Well, I think they're probably furthest ahead on the digital front because they were honestly the first ones affected by it. Right. When, when back in 1998, when no MP3s came out, that was. Now, all of a sudden, it freed the physical requirement of having a CD or a vinyl record of something, you know.

Dan: Now I think, yeah, I think it actually happened when the recording industry actually switched over from. Imprinting plastic or you Know saying. And switch over to magnetic recording. I think that the starting point for that was magnetic recordings.

Dean: Yeah, that's interesting when. Because I think I remember reading about that that was in the 20s.

Dan: That's actually, you know, that's actually very early. I mean we're, we're talking about the 30s or 40s.

Dean: I think it was even earlier. Yeah, that was because I remember when I first started looking at the. How we got to this point with both with text and pictures and video and sound that in 1922 there were some number of record labels and Edison was actually one of the, one of the top labels and there were, I think there were the big four or whatever at that time and the others switched to this magnetic, what you were describing. And Edison chose not to. And then, and by the end of the decade they were out of, out of business and the magnetic thing was the big winner.

Dan: Yeah, Edison at a certain point in his life went totally reactive and non creative. And same thing happened in the movie movie industry. The original body that controlled movie making in the United States was called the Edison Trusted. And it is, they put rules down and what they did is they put a set of rules that were completely vertically integrated. In other words that the machine you used was part of the trust, the film you used was part of the trust. The product itself, how long it could be that was part of the trust. And who could exhibit it was part of the trust. And it was a guy named Adolf Zukor who rebelled against this. And it was all controlled out of New York City. The entire movie industry in the United States was controlled out of New York City. And, and he went west and he went to a place that was called Hollywood. Hollywood. It was a wood that had a lot of holly trees on it. And I went to a Hollywood and, and part of the reason he went there is that if the law came down on him because he was doing a lot of illegal stuff against the Edison Trust that he wasn't far from Mexico. He could get across the Mexican, Mexican border very fast. They went to Los Angeles.

Dean: That's something I didn't know that.

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: That's a great. Yeah. When you really. I saw a thing about the, you know, history of Hollywood and you realize, man, that's been just a hundred years basically, you know.

Dan: Yep, yep.

Dean: You look at it now, I mean, wow.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. And then they became very oppressive. You know, they had the five studios that were five companies and they, they price fix, they, you know, restricted distribution and everything. That was a monopoly. I mean it was five companies. They all had, but they all bread. They all had breakfast with each other every day to determine, you know, how they, how they were going to keep their controlled on that day. And this tendency towards you get this wild, you know, like NFT right now, this is going to be a wild entrepreneurial realm. And then there will become expert corporations in this, you know, and, you know, and you know, the blockchain world, you know, there will be a consolidation of the blockchain companies, the companies that are the key blockchain companies, and then they'll have a relationship with national governments, you know, to enforce laws and everything like that. It's. Yeah, I mean Facebook and you know, Google and Twitter and everything like that. These are historically, these are pretty, these are pretty small players considering some of the monopolies communicate at and t was immensely bigger than, than Facebook or Google can even think about getting.

Dean: Yeah, this is, I mean, yeah, I just look at this, how quickly things go. Like thinking about now, it's kind of NFT really just kind of showed up on our radar the last few weeks. It's really beautiful. Yeah, yeah, kind of.

Dan: I was talking, it was funny. On Wednesday, I did a podcast with Gord Vickman, who's my podcast manager. He talked about nft. And then two hours later, I did a podcast with Peter Diamandis. And you know, Peter's been, you know, talking and investigating fakes, like fake photographs, fake avatars, fake deep fake stuff.

Dean: Yeah, right.

Dan: Fake stuff, you know, fake Tom Cruise, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And I said, well, I think that the NFT is a counter.

Dean: Yes, that's it.

Dan: Yeah. How do we know it? Well, let's have a registry. And the other thing is vote fraud, you know, and already there's articles that I've read that every ballot will be an nft. And when it's your ballot, your identification is tied to this and this is lodged in as an nft. So there can be no fake ballots in future, future elections, you know. Wow. So it's very, very interesting that a party that's very much for advanced technology is suddenly saying, but who have a history of being successful with fraudulent voting, they'll say, right, no, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. No, no, we don't extend this new technology to that. So yeah, it'll be, it'll be a very contentious political issue about voting. You know, like every ballot, one off. And you know, you can't just, you just can't have high school students after election hours filling in ballots for one person. You can't do that anymore.

Dean: I wonder where this like if I look at right now this the as an analog. Let's look at Ghost Kitchens which started out, you know let's call it five years now that the. You know that now there's a whole category and an industry leader in virtual dining concepts as a thing which is really the VCR driven by the VCR formula. Yeah that. So now I wonder if we're at. We're just the word NFT is becoming a buzzword and so everybody's like flocking to it making so anything can be an NFT I think we've seen. So now I wonder if we fast forward where does this, how does the industry kind of evolve around this? Where does this go like.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. I mean you, you have to look here which are most immediately accessible to do something with this I think like, like diamonds. That that was done long ago. Every diamond now that sold at a reputable dealer now is already an nft. It's got a digital imprint on the diamond that tells the complete history where it was mine.

Dean: Oh really?

Dan: Under what conditions?

Dean: Oh yeah. Provenance, right.

Dan: Private provenance.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So yeah, so that's already established you know and I think paintings are probably going that you know anything that's a one off artistic.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Production probably that's already well along the way and I'm just not someone who buys diamonds so I wouldn't necessarily know about it firsthand, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean you could say real estate, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Well even before I mean real estate laws varied with you know, it's very robust. One of our clients here in Toronto, Sasha Kurzmer and you probably know Sasha. I do and Sasha is the number one site surveyor probably in Canada but he's certainly the big, the big person here in Toronto and he has

Dean: actually

Dan: achieve the sole license for all the real estate boundaries in the province of Ontario. He's got a. He's got a perpetual license from a firm that actually does stand by satellite now and a thing. And so he, he is the monopolist who actually has the civil license. So if you're checking out realist, you know, real estate boundary lines you're using a service that he's, that he's created, you know. Well you know that knowledge could be an nft. You know it's. Yeah because every, every boundary line is

Dean: you know,

Dan: you know it's. It can be that and we, we've just gone through a purchase up north and we're just doing a add on to our cottage and it had to be surveyed and then it had to be submitted to the local, you know, the local council, that we were the right distance. The new thing was right. The right distance away from the shoreline. Okay, there's rules. And then we, we bought a new property next to it. And the original boundary lines were like 40 years old. So it was resurveyed, surveying came through and it was a put up here and it was three feet off here and there. So a new boundary line has been established establishing exactly what the property is. You know, so anything that is a one off that you want to prove the originality of it and the legitimacy of it is an NFT.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I was watching on YouTube last night, the, the determination of whether Hitler actually died in the way that it was said. And it came down to his teeth. And they had records, dental records going back 20, 30 years. And both the Russians and the Americans and the British and everything else determined that the set of teeth that were found in this skull in the body outside of the bunker was his. This was.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So but the, it's now determined now. Now here's the thing. Hitler's teeth could be an nft. I mean, if you put, took Hitler's teeth and you actually put them on the, you know, on the Internet and say, buy Hitler's teeth, I wonder how much they go for.

Dean: I wonder. Oh man, this is such a. What a. You know, it's amazing to be at the beginning of a, of something. It really is.

Dan: The whole world is determined between the relationship of, of, of real and fake and between a one off and, you know, copies. You know, I mean. Yeah, part of our economy is based on one offs and part of our economy is based on copies.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And you know, and no, I mean, if I take FA Hayek, you know, the economist who I think has done the best job of thinking through what capitalism actually has, he says that capitalism is an ever expanding system. So what's the ever expanding system here? The Internet, it's, it's Cloudlandia is an system of increasing cooperation among strangers.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Okay, so what's the central issue of cooperation?

Dean: Yeah. Trust.

Dan: Trust. How do we know this is real?

Dean: Yes.

Dan: And so since the whole world has gone to an Internet economy, then it's faking has run ahead of real, you know. You know, so my sense is the law has to catch up with us so that I, if you're doing a deal with someone from, you know, 12 time zones away, how do you trust without ever meeting the person you know, how to, how do You.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah. So there has to be some way of verifating that this is real.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: It can't be changed, it can't be faked, it can't be copied, it can't be counterfeited.

Dean: Right. And that's. I think what's happening too is that people could collaborate on something in and within a smart contract have.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: The royalty of something or the. Your fraction of something directed.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You know, attributed to you. So that's the thing about the collaboration that especially as everything. I think that's really. That's. I'm starting.

Dan: Well, I think that this kind of. Kind of in history kind of marks the point at which, just to use an example, that Facebook's power now declines. And the reason is because already national governments are saying, look, we're not going to allow you in here unless you pay to the media of this country. Your use of their property on Facebook, that happened in Australia three weeks ago. And now Canada is talking about it. Now the European Union is talking about it. And because the means are now available that you use anything digitally of somebody else's. There's a record of it.

Dean: Right. Yeah. And that's what. That's. That's awesome. That's kind of a. That's kind of a great opportunity.

Dan: Mm. Yeah. Well, he had a free ride, you know, it's like free. Yeah, it was like free land for. He had like a wide open range for like, you know, like 20 years, and he just made a ton off of it. But now, you know, the civilization is moving in after him and saying, yeah, we gotta have some rules here.

Dean: Yeah. And now. Yeah, boy. That's all. That's all. I think it's going to be amazing to watch this unfold in the next five years.

Dan: Well, what's your. What's your sense? You and I are talking about it and I've read articles on it and I've done two podcasts on it, and I'm probably more knowledgeable about mainland property law than a lot of people, simply because, you know, of issues that we've had to deal with for 30 years. Actually. For 30 years. And so what's your sense of just having conversations with other people, of where they're understanding what this is all about

Dean: is I think there's certain people who understand more about it. Like, you know, Eben Pagan is someone who knows more. He's deep into it, very thoughtful, like, looking for. I mean, his book was called Opportunity, so he's an opportunity seeker, as am I. Yeah. And you. So he's he's on the cutting edge. But then there are other people who, I don't even know what I've been talking to Joe Polish about it. But you know, you look at, let's just put this in context of the last, you know, Joe, Joe's been on sabbatical since January and so he doesn't really have any experience or knowledge of what Clubhouse is happening or what NSPs are. I think he's, although I think he is staying on top of that. But if you were, you know, someone who's just kind of stepped out for a bit, you missed some, some big things as they've happened. I don't think people understand it, you know, or get a sense of what it, what it is and how fundamentally it's changing. Where I'm, I'm looking towards the. Because as I look more and more towards a future where I'm only contributing scale ready algorithms to collaboration, that's, that's what I am.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Beard. That's where my surfboard is pointed to that horizon now on top of looking for the, the right waves to, to surf on that. But if that is a thing, that's what I, my primary interest in it is to be able to contribute that portion of it and then turn it over to, or collaborate with multipliers who can then take that to the rest of the. Take that to the world and my contribution is valued and compensated for the, that portion of it without having to, you know, set up big enforcement structures and create anything around that.

Dan: No, I understand that. Well, first of all, You know, when we talk about intellectual property, you know, people say intellectual property, what's that? I like ideas. I said, before we start talking about this, I want you to look at the second word.

Dean: Property.

Dan: Yeah, I said, you can forget the first word. The second word is what it's about. It's about property. And there's been a lot of foolishness. There's been a lot of foolishness in the magical thinking world. I mean, there's Cloudlandia, which is real, and then there's magical thinking, which is Outlandia. That's not real. Magical thinking is, well, in the future we won't own anything. And I said, who's the who who aren't going to own anything? Because I'd like to know who the who's are who own what you don't own. You know, it's kind of like, right, you know, it's like universal basic income. You know, the whole notion that we're all going to be paid by the government, you know, he's going to get. And I said, I'll tell you how this will work out. You have 100 people, okay? And at the first of the month, they all get $10,000, okay? So it's a million dollars, okay, so it's a million dollars. That's work. So on the first of the month, you have 100 people, each have $10,000. I'll tell you how. I'll tell you what it looks like. On the last day of the month, 20% of them have 80% of the money.

Dean: Mm, I bet you're right.

Dan: Yeah, it's Pareto's law. It's Pareto's law.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: First of all, because most of the people don't even know that. That from the government, that you know that you know that $10,000 is property, but the others do. The 20% know its property. The 80% don't know it's property. You know, and it's sort of like that. There are certain people who know that things are worth something. And they've got lawyers, lawyers and accountants, and they staff up and everything like that. So, you know, I think that the least likely people to profit by this NFT thing is probably the millennial generation who've never owned anything. Like, they're late into the ownership world because they got hit really hard in the 0809. I think that the millennials will probably do in their lives what almost every previous other generation do, but they'll be 10 years behind. They'll get married 10 years behind. They'll buy real estate 10 years behind. They'll have children 10 years behind, which means they're not going to have many children. The reason is because they got interrupted by economics in their development, and they had to be renters. You know, everything had to be on credit and renting. They never created any capital to actually have ownership. So the people who will be probably not clued in are probably people up till about 40 years old right now. People over 40 will really get this. The people under 40 won't get it. I mean, there'll be exceptions, like, yeah, Mr. Beat, Mr. Beast will totally get this, you know, little lads. But, yeah, they'll be the exception. They'll be the exceptions. They'll be the exceptions. But the vast majority of young people won't get this at all until much later.

Dean: Yeah, because, you know, but that's. That's a perfect example. When you look at this new Gen Z, they've never known anything. They've been born into this. This the digital world. Digital natives. That's the. Yeah, that's the thing.

Dan: My generation. Yeah, it's really interesting. My generation. So my Generation started in 1928 and ended in 1946. So it's an 18 year. And by far, on a per capita basis, my generation is the wealthiest generation that the world has ever known.

Dean: What years were that?

Dan: 1928 to 1946.

Dean: So you're the silent generation.

Dan: Silent, yeah, we're quiet generation silent.

Dean: My mom was in that.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Silent generation. And the reason is that we didn't go through the First World War. We didn't go. I mean, and we were children during the Depression, so we weren't out in the marketplace and we didn't go through the Second World War. So.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: And then right after the war, there was this huge boom of economic activity and we. We just. We just went up the express elevator where everybody else had to go four by four. You know, like, there was always opportunity.

Dean: There were.

Dan: There. There were more jobs than there were us. There was more education available than there were us, so.

Dean: And you were right off the cusp. New schools, new everything.

Dan: Knew everything. Knew everything. And I know it affects my attitude about, you know, the future and everything. People, you know, you know, I mean, I was.

Dean: We.

Dan: We've been having sort of reviews of the last year and people said, you know, you were really. Everybody was scared and you were really brave. I said I was brave. I said, I just saw nothing but opportunity when the lockdown happened.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Because my whole life has just been about opportunity. And I see nft. And I said, oh, this is great. You know, this is great. Right. I'm going to find out all about this real fast because I got a lot of stuff that is created and so have all my clients. I want to get on top of this right away and figure out what. How all my clients can take their original stuff and get it, you know, get it on blockchain, you know, I mean, I said, this is huge. This is huge.

Dean: Yeah, boy.

Dan: Like you. Like you. Dean, Can I tell you something? Starting in 1985, so Babs and I met in 1982. Babs has saved every single sheet of paper that I've either done a drawing on or wrote an idea down. We've got 10,000 sheets of paper stored and filed and everything. And Bab says, you see any paper that Dan draws on, you save it and it goes in the file.

Dean: Isn't that something? Yeah, I was just looking at.

Dan: I bet you. I bet you have a lot of that Stuff like that.

Dean: Well, just sitting right beside me here, I have a stack of some journals that I was looking through. And this one that I have in my hand here is from August to November of 1996. So this is. Yeah, I would like these. When I. Yeah, when I first started using them, it was the account books, like ledger books, The Blue Line, a 796 record book with archival quality paper and all that. Because I knew even then it's something. It was funny to want to. Yeah.

Dan: This is like an original Matthew, Mark, Luke and John scripture. Oh, boy. This is like a first folio. Shakespeare. No, no, I'm just saying. I'm just saying that, first of all, the marketplace determines whether anything is worth anything, but you never know. Somebody does a digital painting for 69 million, you know.

Dean: Yes. Well, what he sold was an amalgam of his everyday. He does digital artwork every day. And what he sold was an amalgam of the first 5,000 days. So it was one image. One image of, you know, a representation of almost pixelated kind of thing. Of all 5,000 of the images. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Well, that's a lot of work. I mean, that's 5,000 days work. I mean, very few painters have put in 5,000 painters to create, you know, put in 5,000 days to create a painting, you know, so. Yeah, I mean, first of all, it's. I think that's worth something. I'm willing to bid on that. You know, that's. This is the. I think one of my. You know, as I developed my quarterly books, there's an idea that the most disruptive force in the world is an unpredictable consumer with a new capability. Mm. And that's where all value is. That's where all value is created.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Somebody who's an unpredictable consumer. And this person just got a new capability. And all of a sudden his vision has changed, his capability has changed, his sense of capability and his reach just changed. And I have to tell you, big data can keep track of that.

Dean: Wow. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I mean, this. Oh, Dan, It's.

Dan: It's Ronald Reagan. It was probably around 1986 or so, and the big thing came up that the Russians were stealing U. S. Secrets. And there was all this thing about the U. USSR still in secrets. And he says, you know what we ought to do? He says, we oughta. You know, we ought to get every 747 airplane in the world, especially the cargo planes, and we ought to search the United States from one end to the other for every secret. And we had a load of Them on all the 747s and we had to fly them to Moscow and dump them on the Runway. And he said, just trying to come to grips with what we've dropped on the Runway will destroy the Soviet Union.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: And it was gone. And it was gone in five years. And maybe, you know, maybe he was, he had some insight on it. You know, I think same thing with the Chinese. They're surveilling everybody. You know, they've got, they've got massive numbers of millions of people who sit in front of computers and watch other people. And I said, at a certain point, it's just one day too far that they've done this and the entire system sort of freezes up and everything collapses.

Dean: Oh, man.

Dan: Because there's no creativity and there's no great.

Dean: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan: You know, you know, pay, just, just take care of yourself and you know, have big visions and, you know, your capabilities correctly and collaborate with other people and, you know, you don't have to worry about what the rest of the world is doing.

Dean: Right. That's what I'm looking forward to, is this.

Dan: So. So, Dean, I'm asking your permission right here. I've got a free zone full day workshop coming up on Thursday and I would like to take a first crack at what the form will look like for all the free zone entrepreneurs identifying themselves in terms of their pcr.

Dean: Oh, yes, I would love that.

Dan: Would you like that?

Dean: Yeah, I would love that. Okay, so there's a. I didn't realize.

Dan: And at the bottom, at the bottom of the sheet it says copyright and trademark. Dean Jackson. So I just want to let you know.

Dean: I appreciate that. This is great.

Dan: No, no, no, no. Yeah, no, no, no. It's your totally your thing, but I'll help develop the thinking on it. And all my thinking is your thinking. So all the thinking I do on this belongs to you. So I just want to let you

Dean: know that this is great. So I got that going for me.

Dan: Yeah, Yeah.

Dean: I love it.

Dan: So no matter what I do with it and how far I develop it, it's 100% yours. I like that.

Dean: So this is this Thursday?

Dan: This Thursday, yeah. In Chicago. In Chicago, yeah. Well, it's the ordinary. If it was in person, that would be a Chicago workshop. Yeah. So I'm going to do it and I put together some interesting tools, including this new, you know, certainty, uncertainty, which is really a. It's a fascinating concept. New concept. And I. Yeah,

Dean: okay. No, I just dawned on me now that why I was thinking about that. But you've got two Free zone groups. That's what it is.

Dan: So I have first one. I have a one and then another one in April, you know. Yeah, right.

Dean: Yeah. But I may come to this one if that's.

Dan: Yeah, but here's the. Here's. Wow. It starts at 10 Eastern time. So we move.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: We do it on Chicago based. So it's 10 to 4 and I don't know exactly the timing yet, but it's going to be a great workshop. I mean.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And everything.

Dean: So.

Dan: But the reason I wanted to have this recorded is that I want to establish a. You know, that you and I, you know, this is being recorded. That I'm establishing my basis for collaborations. That what I really want is a new capability for my. But in the final analysis, the capability is 100% owned by you. And I just want to establish this as a principle. Because if that's an operating principle, I can have any number of questions. Collaborations in the world and collab. Any collaborator would totally trust me because I'm grinding them. Ownership of the ownership of the original idea.

Dean: It's all very exciting.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: It's a new frontier, a freeze on

Dan: frontier to my develop. It's crucial to my development of the Free Zone.

Dean: Yeah, I think so. That's what I'm excited about is to see this because as I'm finding my place in the Free Zone that I see where I have the best contributions, you know. So. Mm. Anyway, it's fun to see it evolved.

Dan: Yeah. Well, it'll be great then having you.

Dean: I'll be there.

Dan: Yeah. In collaboration on Thursday because I think this will be a great discussion.

Dean: I can't wait. All right. As always.

Dan: All right.

Dean: I enjoy it. I will talk to you on Thursday.

Dan: Yeah, thanks, Dean.

Dean: Thanks.

Dan: Bye.

Dean: Bye.