Compelling vs Convincing

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia. Mr. Sullivan,

Dan: Mr. Jackson.

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia. Yes.

Dan: Yes. Here we are. Yes. And nobody has to really know how big Cloud Dandy is.

Dean: It's immeasurable.

Dan: Yeah, I was thinking about it somehow. How big is the universe? You know, well, you know, you can guess all you want, but one, there's no way of measuring it. Number two is what have you got? If you think you have a guess, you know, it's not really, it's not important. But the best answer is there's enough of it.

Dean: I was just seeing a Neil DeGrasse Tyson was explaining some, I don't know how recent this was a telescope that had been pointed at a relatively like, dark, uninteresting part of the sky and had taken pictures for years. And when you zoom in on that, there's, you know, at least 100 million stars that are. Each contain at least 100 million. Each one of them are galaxies. And it was just like. Yeah, you really understand just the incredible vastness of the universe.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. The reason why it's so big is so you won't spend a lot of time worrying about how big it is.

Dean: That's exactly right. It's reassuringly vast. Yeah, yeah.

Dan: And I think, and I think Cloudlandia is, you know, it's a bit like how much electricity is they're on the planet. And I says, well, usually, you know, everybody wants, probably has plans to use more, but right now there's probably enough. It's probably maybe a little bit more expensive than you want. But you know, generally speaking, the lights work and you can recharge your cell phone and you know, and all things comfortable and convenient that you want down. There's enough electricity on the planet and if you live in a place where there isn't, then you probably have future plans to move.

Dean: Yeah, you look at that and you know, you think about now, you know, talking about the cloud, no matter how big it is, that we can instantly reach all parts of it. When you think about what, you know, what Zoom has done. I've been watching, I watched a series on Netflix called the Offer and it was about, it's a 10 episode series about the, all the stuff around the making of the Godfather, the movie and, you know, so set in, you know, 1970 and all the, you know, things deep in the heart of an analog only world. Then you know, everything requiring, you know, no easy way to connect to everybody. Know all of that, you know, all the limitations of analog. But the guy who was the head of Paramount Studios at The time Bob Evans was fascinating. And I've just been watching this morning. I was. I just thought it was a little bit late.

Dan: He was a famous guy back in the day. He was very famous.

Dean: Absolutely. And I was just watching. There's a documentary about him called the Kid Stays in the Picture. And yes, it's very interesting.

Dan: And before that, I think he was actually a war photographer during the Second World War. There's some documentaries of Berlin in color which were taken obviously after the Unreal War.

Dean: That must be a different Bob evidence,

Dan: because he might be a different Bob Evans. He was only an actor.

Dean: Yeah, maybe. Although, no, 1956, he would. I guess he could have been young, like 20, 21, when he was doing in the 40s. That could have been true. So maybe you are right.

Dan: Yeah, I think he was in the army, but he was a photographer. I think I remember I was really struck by it because I said, you know, the. I'm kind of a sucker for, you know, documentary films of historic events, but I really struck the name Bob Evans who went on to a famous career. It said Bob Evans, who went on to a famous career in Hollywood. So, yeah, I mean, it's not that unusual a name that there might have been two or three of them.

Dean: It might have been the guy who started the restaurants. Bob Evans. Yeah. That's funny. Different Bob Evans.

Dan: I think that one. That one is a different one. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: But it is fascinating how, you know, what a rigamarole it was to make a movie back in 1970 and to edit the movie. And they're showing, you know, scenes from, you know, the cutting room where they're literally cutting film. And, you know, you know, you don't even get to see what you've got until you develop the things. And now anybody with your iPhone can make a higher quality, you know, image than what was even available back then. It's crazy.

Dan: Well, I can do a comparison of just the, you know, the graphic and types, you know, the ability to create niched printed materials that my team at Strategic Coach can do. So we have. I'm just trying to take care. We have 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, maybe 5 artists, computer graphic artists. And then we have. We have. Some of them are layout artists. Some of them, you know, can do multimedia, some of them can do diagram type graphics. And then they can import photos and everything into that. And we have a video division, you know, that is knocking out videos every day, doing interviews of clients and customers and doing videos of myself and other members of Strategic Coach and. And then there's the whole production of actually producing and printing the materials. And I would say on an average week we could produce 10 times more material, finished material with my team in 2022 than my entire advertising agency could in 1972. So 50 years ago. Yeah, not my advertising agency, the advertising that I work for. And it was the second largest agency in Canada and part of a worldwide network called bdo. And you know, it's just a matter of course we consider, you know, that if I send a drawing to my layout artist for a new tool at first thing in the morning and let's say she starts working on it at 9 o', clock, I'm coaching that tool with a finished project by 11 o' clock that, that morning. Yeah.

Dean: Wow, that's. Yeah, that's awesome.

Dan: No, and I mean I had a case that I got an idea during a workshop. So this would be a Zoom workshop. Six hours long and around. I start at nine and finish at three. So at around 10 o' clock I just got an idea of a new tool and I sketched it out at the 10 o' clock break and send it through to the artist and she sent it back. The layout, the complete layout where I could put in the finished type at noon and I used it at about 1:30 that afternoon. That idea came up at 10:00 o' clock and I had the finished product to do. And I, I mean I'm impressed with that. I mean it's not like yeah, say ho hum, we can do that but it's a thought that doesn't even exist 50 years ago or 30 years ago. 30 years ago. I mean that's just a silly thought that you could do something like that. But it's, you know.

Dean: Yeah. Let alone the bigger idea that there's a hundred people gathered by video screen that you're using it for. Yeah, yeah.

Dan: And they each get it.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And they each get a copy of the Isht with all the. My sample copy. In other words, I tell them examples but they get a writable PDF too. Right. You know they can on their iPad or on their computers. They can go in and they can type in their thinking. Looking at the thinking that I've already done. By the way, you have mail, Mr. Jackson, something that I did during the week. If you want to PDF that was not a word we use 50 years ago.

Dean: What does PDF is there for personal?

Dan: I have no idea. I was just thinking. I was just thinking the same thought.

Dean: I think it's principal document file or something there. Yep. Let's just Say that's what it is. We'll make that up.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Whenever. More people.

Dan: If it wasn't that before our podcast. It is now.

Dean: It is now. Yeah. We'll say it with enough confidence that whatever other people think it might stand for, they might second guess themselves with, you know, two of the people they look up to saying something different. They're going to change their opinions because we've got a consensus.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Well, I'm very excited. What is it? What do I have? I got. Is it an email or a physical.

Dan: No, it's called. It's called best compelling offers. Okay. And then it's got a little quote at the top of the page that says, a compelling offer is 10 times more persuasive than a convincing argument with a dash. And Dean Jackson. That says Dean Jackson.

Dean: That's right. I like what I'm hearing, and that's been a big. That's been a big winning strategy for me, is separating the compelling and the convincing. And that's, you know, really interested because it's easier to, especially when you're working with invisible prospects, getting people. It's more. It's easier to get people compelled to raise their hand and identify themselves and poke their head up than it is to. To convince them of anything. So now I'm excited to see how that, how that tool works out.

Dan: Yeah. What I did is I just went through and I said, what are compelling offers? 3 compelling offers that strategic coach has. And one of them is who not how that's a compelling offer. You know, as soon as people get. They say, oh, wow, wow, that's really interesting. And how was that? Yeah, that. That has the same heritage as the compelling offer, namely Dean Jackson. And then number two was the gap in the gain. When you explained if you measure against an ideal you're in, you always fail and you're in the gap and you're miserable. But if you always measure your progress backwards against where you started, you always feel you've made tremendous progress and you feel happy with it. Nice. That's your choice whether you want. So that's a compelling offer. And the third one is ten times is easier than two times. If you use. If you use the two other offers above, if you do who not how, and you stay in the gain, you will experience 10 times growth and you will discover that it's easier than before when you tried to go two times doing everything yourself and not being happy. Happy with your progress. So I said, yeah, you know, if you put these three compelling offers together, it's A. It's kind of like a formula. It's kind of a breakthrough formula. And then I had everybody, you know, all the. This was the free zone on Thursday that I did this for. And it had a catalytic effect on the thinking of everybody. We had about 12. It's the smaller group during the quarter. They all said that they were spending way too much.

Dean: That you did.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: These were live ones, actually.

Dan: It was interesting. They were there live, but I was by zoom because I caught Covid last week.

Dean: Oh, my goodness. No.

Dan: Yes. So I. So this is our first hybrid where we. Where the people have come and they're sitting in their seats. And I unfortunately had to do it. I mean, it's. It was clunky for me, you know, to do it the first time. But they seemed happy, you know, they seemed happy. Yeah. And. And we had great conversations. And I wasn't sick that I couldn't perform. I was sick that they shouldn't be near me, you know?

Dean: Right.

Dan: Sort of. Sort of thing. So we had to hustle. I was diagnosed on Wednesday morning. This was Thursday morning. So our team had the house. Yeah, I was in my house in Chicago. I. I had done a workshop on Tuesday and I started getting a really sore throat and cough near the end of the day. And then we diagnosed on Wednesday morning. And. No, I'm having trouble hearing you. Yeah. I don't know why Siri interrupts my discussions. Yeah. Yeah. And she's always complaining about how she can't understand what I'm saying. You know, what good are you? What good are you? Exactly. Yeah. And I'm. Understand. I'm not understandable. And she's irritating. This is not a marriage made in heaven. Anyway, so anyway. So anyway. But everybody loved it. They just really loved it. And all of them were convinced that they were spending way, way too much time of their careers up until now and their present use of time trying to create convincing arguments.

Dean: It's the truth. That's, you know, that's the same thing. What I talk. My kind of. One of the evolutions of that is this idea of the purchasing department versus the receiving doc that when you're, you know, when you go into the purchasing department, you've got to make convincing arguments to give me money versus anybody else that you're, you know, that's also lined up here to try and get you to give them money for some future delivery of hoped for result. If you go around and skip that line and go through the receiving dock, you're met with open arms because that's compelling. That's a compelling offer that at the receiving dock, you're met with open arms. Everybody at their metaphorical receiving doc is open to receiving more business, more money, more work, more clients, more whatever it is that the result could be. And you're, you know, there's no resistance. And that's kind of a. It's really, it's such a simplifier in a lot of ways, but people are resistant to it because it's so counterintuitive to go first, you know, in terms.

Dan: Well, the other, the, the other thing is that convincing arguments don't necessarily transform. You can convince someone without actually transforming their belief system or their behavior, you know. Yeah, I'm convinced, but so what? You know, I'm convinced, but so, So, I mean, am I supposed to do something with that? I mean. And the thing is, the person who's made the convincing argument, what do they get out of it in terms of response? You know, Convincing argument doesn't mean that you just got a sale now. What it means is probably you won't hear from that person again because they feel, what's the use of talking to you because you're convinced? And. Whereas, you know, I was thinking, what's a really good, you know, what's a really good compelling offer that we've lived with? I have, you know, because I'm. Because of my lifetime education and, you know, my interests and everything else. I grew up, you know, I went to Catholic schools for 12 years of my grade school and high school. 12 years. And right off the bat, you know, there was a compelling offer, and that was that if you live good in this lifetime, you get to go to heaven. That's a compelling offer, you know. That's a compelling offer, you know. Yeah. And. And if you're an American, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's a compelling offer, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Well, not for everybody. Yep. But. But for those who really want it, you get it. You know, it's kind of like people say, well, prove to me that's true. No, no, no. I'll give you immigration figures, you know. Right. How many people want to move there? That's. I mean, nobody's trying to swim to China, you know. True. Yeah. Yeah. That's not a compelling offer place, you know. Yeah. No, nobody's going to Ukraine so that they can cross the border into Russia, you know, that's not a compelling offer. So. So the big. So the big thing is that it's a great simplifier about just what matters. I mean, if you're building your, you know, the value creation model to, you know, your clientele. Whatever way you do that. And if you're doing your marketing and you're doing your selling and use compelling offer as the main design area and quality control, I mean, is what you're doing actually, does it actually constitute a compelling offer?

Dean: Yeah, I think that, you know, it's really about this is where those capabilities come in and best capacity that using those. I think that if you can come. This is maybe a 10 times formula, you know, a 10 times opportunity is if you come from a stable platform, you know, your present business where you are that successful and sustaining kind of thing, you know, to the capabilities that you have are probably not running at their capacity and having that opportunity to now think about being a steward or an investor of that asset that you have of access to your excess capacity that from that you can really make. That's where you can really make a compelling offer.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you see it all the time. You know, I think that the entire infomercial industry, if you think back the, you know, seeing the, you know, mainly weekend, 15 minute half hour where they're making that just by ordering, you know, this device there, first of all, they show you that whether you know it or not, there's five things that are happening to you in your daily life where you're really annoyed and you're really frustrated. Sorry. And it all comes down to the fact that you're trying to do it a really hard way. But there's one device that's now open that actually relieves you of these five bothers, not only today when you get it, but for the rest of your life. You've just cleared out, you know, thousands and thousands of future days of the annoyance that's being caused because you, you lack this one device in your home. You know, it's a compelling offer. It's compelling offer.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I mean if they're good, they're really a compelling offer. I mean, I think they, they all tried to make what they're doing, I mean, a compelling offer. And probably where they fail is where they're making a convincing argument. And I see a lot of market. So where do you see it? I mean, I mean, let's use real estate, you know, and getting listings. What would you say is the message that falls into the category, category of a convincing argument? That a real estate, you know, agent would try to make that?

Dean: Absolutely. Okay. So one of the things that realtors, the primary thing that they're interested in doing if they're going to grow their business and have long term sustainable business is getting listings. The most successful real estate agents are strong on the listing side of the business. They're not just running around working with buyers hoping to finds them a home. They are, there's much more leverage in listings. So part of the thing that they have to do is get themselves chosen over all the other realtors that also want to get that listing. And the thing that happens is that they're lining up and trying to convince people that they are the one that they should, you should choose to sell out. And so they make these arguments based on here's what our, you know, track record has been, here's what our marketing plan is, you know, and they're saying once we list your house, we'll expose it to the world through the Internet and we'll get, do this and we'll do this and we'll do this. And trying to then convince them that of the four people they're, they're considering that I'm, you know, they're the one that can get the job done. But all of that, nobody goes into it wanting to list their house. You know, I say that to all the, you know, people who are trying to figure out what's the most convincing listing argument. And you know, I say convincing thing is a compelling offer. If you went in, if I went in behind five people who'd gone before me and I went in and said, Dan, you got a beautiful home here. How much would you like for it? And you said a number. And I said that sounds great. When would you like to move? And you set a date. And I said okay. And I got out my checkbook and I wrote you a check that will be. You would, that's a compelling offer. Not need you wouldn't that, that I call that is a mother beating offer. That if, even if one of the candidates was your mother to list the house, that if you got a buyer, somebody who's going to buy the house, then there's no need to list it with their mother because they matched the objective. Right? And that.

Dean: So I said now going the next best thing going in with your own checkbook is to go in with a buyer with their checkbook. And so yeah, I, you know, we would always say like I discovered early on, that I would feature the fact that I started looking for the buyer for your house 180 days ago. And I've got this list of people who are looking for a home in the beach that very close to the lake and as a matter of fact, before I came over here, I sent, I have a list of people that are. That have asked for my beach report updates. And I sent an email to them talking broad strokes about going to see somebody about selling their house. And I've got 14 people that applied to the email saying, oh, please tell me about this one. As soon as you, as soon as you have more detail now that's more compelling. You know, Dan, I did a show, this was in the early 90s. I got. I found out that public access, tell it like our local cable, was mandated to offer public access to the community. And I was doing homebuyer workshops at the library in Georgetown and I went to Halton Cable and I said I'd like to do a show for first time homebuyers modeled on my homebuyer workshop. And they said, oh, that sounds like a great idea. And they had the studio and everything. I got a half hour show which was really an infomercial basically because I had a guide called Six Steps to Home Ownership that I would, you know, interspersed throughout the show and have people call a recorded message, my voicemail basically to ask for the guide. And I got that show produced and on the air two nights a month on the first and third Thursday for a year. And I had to pay $500 for the, the labor, the crew and the editor for the thing that was it, airtime and the studio specialist.

Dan: 500 for the year or 5 for the year.

Dean: For the year.

Dan: Yeah. Because

Dean: so I would make sure, Dan, that I set up a listing presentation on those Thursday nights at my show at 7:30. And I would set up a listing appointment for 7:00 so we would have a chance to go through the house, talk, you know, get settled, then start talking about marketing and you know, about quarter to eight, I would time it. I'd be talking about the marketing. And I say that, those words. So you know what's different, Dan, is while I'm here talking to you about listing your house, I'm actually out there looking for a buyer for your house.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And say, let's go into the TV room here. And I would count on. And then there I was on tv while I'm standing there right with them. And while this is going on after the commercial section of the thing where I'd say, you know, no need to write anything down, I've got a free book for you that you can get. Just call this number for a recorded message and I'll send one to you right away. So I would Dial the number and push in my code to retrieve the messages. And they would hear person after person leaving their contact information for me to send the guide. And it was all. It was overwhelmingly impressive for people to see that, wow, this guy really does have. He really does have fun. Buyers.

Dan: Well, it's magic. I mean, yeah, you've introduced magic into a realm where most people think it's, you know, it's a chore. You know, it's a chore. It's a time, you know, you waste a lot of time. You kind of dread it. You kind of dread going through the normal process. I'll tell you, I'm going to give you three, three times that I have made the real estate, someone in the real estate industry in the beaches, very unhappy. Okay, here's the first one. So Babs and I lived in lower Chinatown and we rented, but we made a decision that within the next 12 months we were going to buy and we were going to go to the beaches in Toronto. Very, you know, for those of you who don't know, it's very attractive part of Toronto. And it's named because it's got a beach and it's got a boardwalk and it's, you know, it's like, it's a great place. Anyway, we also picked the street that we wanted to live on, and we wrote up a series of attributes that any house that we bought would have to do this. This. We had about eight of them because there was a real estate agent in the program who had the beaches as part of his territory. And we. He say, you know, if you ever want to move, I'll find something. And we said, well, here's the attributes. So we're not going to go looking at homes and you're going to sell us into why we want this home. This is the home we want. So if you don't find that, don't talk to us, and we're not going to go. We're not going to go and visit. Okay, so. So this went on for about six months. And he said, there's nothing like it. He says, I can tell you right now, I know it. And I said, well, there's nothing that you know, but are there other agents that you know who might know that something like this exists? It's just that it's not on the market. So he did that for about two months. And he, you know, he was quite.

Dan: And I actually just expanded his real estate agent, his real estate agent skills because he now had something where he went and he was talking to an agent, he says, you know, I've got this couple that if they have a house. And he says, you know, I've got a. I've got one of my customers who's building a new house right on Balsam Avenue, right across the street, but they've got this little cottage, and it doesn't look like much from the outside, but when you go on the inside, it kind of looks like this list that your clients have. And so my agent said, it's not on the market, but can you do a private listing for five days? And he said, yeah, I'll talk to, you know, he said, I'll talk to my, you know, to my customers. He if. And they came back and they said, yeah, we'll do it, but we don't want to talk to anybody. And this is the price, and we're not haggling, so there's no discussion or anything else. And the guy called Babs. I was in Vancouver, and she went and she saw it, and she walked in and she said, okay, I want crap. Now we have to buy it because this is our listing. Okay? And. And we settled, you know, we settled within the time period and we wrote the check and that was it. Okay. So. So then we lived in it for nine years, and we were looking for a bigger place, and there was a. There was a lot to two houses up from us, and that was the kind of lot we would like. It was a terrible lot. It landed one way and another way and it had a crappy little house. And we found out that the owner lived on our street, and he was. He was just holding on to this property for investment purposes. He had his own home, and he was holding them on. So what we did and we talked to people and they said, you know, don't even bother him. You know, he's holding on to this, and, you know, he's not going to have a discussion with you. So what we did is we brought in a. An evaluator.

Dan: And the evaluator, I said, you know, just looking from the outside, we don't want you, you know, knocking on the door or anything like that. But just from the outside, how much would you say the going price is for this right now in the beaches? He gave us a number, and I wrote it down, and. But I said, he's holding on for, you know, investment purposes. That means that he doesn't want the price right now. He wants a future price. And I said, what do you think the price is going to be three years from now as things are Going. And he gave me a second price, and I wrote it on another sheet of paper. And I went over and knocked on the door. And, you know, he was friendly. He came in and I said, so we understand that you're this property right across the street that you have is that you're doing it for investment purposes. And so we'd be interested in talking and buying it in such a way that you were rewarded for that. And so we had your property evaluated. And this is the price right now. And he was surprised by it. It was higher than he thought because he hadn't really updated his thinking about it. And. And he says, oh, that's interesting. And he thought I was going to begin a negotiation process. But I. I simply said, but we're not going to offer you this. We're going to offer you what this will be worth three years from now. And, and, and he said, wow, well, that's pretty good. And I said, and you got five days to make up your mind. And we're not gonna. We're not gonna negotiate it. And within five days, he said, yes, you can have it. Wow. Okay, now in between the two. And so we have one house, and then we just bought another one. And we put the present house on the market. And the first bid that came in, we thought it was kind of insulting, and so we weren't. It was the only bid we got. It was the only. It was the only bid we actually got. But in between our next door neighbor who worked for us, she was going through a divorce.

Dan: And one of the conditions of the divorce is she was going to have to sell her house, which she was unhappy with because her high school students were, you know, she didn't want. They were being disrupted by the divorce and didn't want the further disruption that they would have to move. So I was talking to her and I said to Babs, I said, why don't we buy that house too and just rent it to her until. And. And so she did. And she was very thankful. You know, it was about two and a half, three years. And so she just rented and it was a reasonable rent and everything else. Her kids graduated and she, she moved and bought a new house and she got. We gave a good price. So in all three cases, there were people who were angry in the real estate business because not one of those houses ever went on the market.

Dean: That's. There you go. That's.

Dan: And the reason was I just made three compelling offers.

Dean: That's exactly, that's exactly it. See, that's the Interesting thing is that when you're willing to make compelling offers that you can create magic, you can

Dan: create well and you save an enormous amount of time and effort.

Dean: So.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, but you could have, you know, you could have bargained the person down. And I said, yeah, but what's my time worth that I'd want to spend bargaining over a period of days? And then they'd say, well, I'll see if I can get a competitive bid. And then they put you into the competition market that you're betting against other people. And I said, why don't you just bypass. Just bypass. Why don't we just bypass that and just do the. Let's just go right to them. Let's just go and score the goal.

Dean: Yes, exactly. And you know, you think about that, that what year was that you did the, that you bought those houses? Was it all in the same year?

Dan: Well, 93. 93 was the first one and then two, 2001 was the second one and then I think. And I think it was 2002 was the third one. You know, where we. Yeah, where we purchased it. Yeah.

Dean: So the second one that you paid the guy the three year price, you know, here you've been there now for 22 years.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: How much of a difference did it make in your ultimate. You know, I would say three year price compared to the.

Dan: Yeah, it's one of our, one of our, you know, realty. He's a Keller Williams. He runs a big. Well, you know, he's one of your customers, you know, Glenn. Yeah, and Glenn came down, we had a party there and of course we have all three of them knit together with. And he came down, he said, oh my God. He said, I don't think there's anything like this in Toronto. And I said, not that we're selling, but in your mind, I mean, you're fast at giving a number. And. And he said, well, separately or together? I said, you know, we wouldn't break it up, we would, you know, sell it as hell. And he said, well, it's so unique. And he gave us a number that if you went back and compared it to what we had paid for all three of them in the first place was three times. Three or four times.

Dean: Yeah. Isn't that great? I mean, yeah, yeah.

Dan: No, I just wanted to see how you. I just wanted to see how you would have graded my compelling offer homework.

Dean: I think it's fantastic. You just proved. I mean, that's exactly what I was saying. There's no need, you know, you had knocked on the guy's door and offered him the three year future price.

Dan: Now.

Dean: Yeah, there's no way that he's going to counter that with. Yeah, so you know what, let me get four real estate agents in here and see what they could do if we listed it. It's like, you know, the compelling offer with a deadline of five days is. Why would he, you know, it's like, yeah, it's almost like, it's like Zig Ziglar. Right. So you can get anything you want in life is helpful enough. Other people get what they want. You're thinking, what does he want?

Dan: Yeah. And the big thing is that you're, you're actually, you know, when you're making a compelling offer, you're selling the future. When you make a convincing argument, you're trying to sell the past.

Dean: Right. That's well said. You're signing.

Dan: In other words, I mean, why do all investments have somewhere on the cheat, you know, where you have a description. Past performance is no indicator of future success. You know, exactly right.

Dean: That's.

Dan: The past doesn't tell you the past doesn't tell you anything about what kind of future that people want. You know, it's. Yeah, but here it was specific that I understood. You know, I kind of understood in the first case. I'm just trying to put this together because I haven't thought it through. But I didn't want the person who was our client in the workshop as a real estate agent wasting time trying to convince us that we should settle for a compromise to what we're looking for. You know, and I didn't want him wasting time. But on the other hand, I didn't want to waste anybody else's time. It was either, there's a match up here, there's no matchup. But if there is a matchup, this can happen. And you know, so the age our agent got a sale and the other agent got a sale, you know, and the people who agreed to our offer or who agreed to, who gave us the offer, they were going to have to go through the process somewhere along the line anyway. And they were really busy and they were building another home. And this just. And we did it according to their deadline when they wanted to move out, you know. Yeah. So you're just looking at what is the future that each of these people are trying to create. And, you know, and you're making the offer based on their definition of their future and how quickly and how easily they can get to their future.

Dean: That's really, you know, when, as I'M thinking about what you're saying about the future is that that really is at the heart of. In a marketing situation. What I was talking about going to the receiving doc is really about a risk reversal, which is very compelling.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And it's just a matter of time. It's just on that if you've got. If you know that an engagement with you and your business is going to produce this, you know, future benefit for the person who's engaging you. Yeah. Your. The convincing is trying to lay out and give people enough confidence that they're willing to take a risk.

Dan: Well, not only that, but they're willing. Yeah, they're willing that, you know, they're willing based on evidence from the past.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Which they have no way of. Which they have no way of checking out, you know, whether it's true or not, that they will risk their time in the future on a possibility that if they have you doing the work, that. But to a certain extent they have to convince themselves too that there is a price, that if this salesperson, the listing salesperson, could find a buyer for it, that they might be willing. But right at the moment, they don't have any intention of selling. And so there's a lot of, you know, you're trying to get people to fundamentally change their whole notion of the future, at least, you know, the immediate future or the short range future, for the sake that they might make some money, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And then they have to find another house and, you know, then what are they going to do?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I mean, you're asking people to work really hard. A convincing argument. You're asking people to work really hard. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing about why things work and why things don't work. I think what you've put your finger on when things work is because there's a compelling offer here, when things don't work, it's that there's a convincing argument that's compelling. No

Dean: action.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah,

Dean: yeah, that's something. Then it really becomes about your confidence in your capabilities to deliver the result that you're promising, that you're, you know, you're willing to take the risk, that that outcome is certain. You're certain in this thing and that either. That intertwines with your, with cash confidence. I think that's all part of it. If you can afford your compensation for something in, in somebody getting the result, that's the number one reason that real estate commissions are so high.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Because you only pay for the result, you know, could you imagine, let's say the average house in Toronto is over a million dollars now where, you know, if you had to go and make your presentation to somebody and then in order to hire you, they had to write a check for $60,000 right now. Yeah, that's a very different thing than having to pay $60,000 out of the future big million dollar check that they're going to get if things go right. I mean.

Dan: Yeah, but it's very profound and I think it really struck me because the exercise went over so well and everybody said, I can't believe the amount of time I've been wasting trying to substantiate an argument, in other words, that basically my, my strategy for being in the marketplace as an entrepreneur is a argument. It's an argument. It's not an offer. It's not an offer. And. Right. And so anyway, it's, I think it's, metaphysically it's, I think you, you know, it's kind of the dark world or the light world, you know, it's got that, you know.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You know. Yeah. And most of what people do is dark world stuff. You know, they live in the dark

Dean: world, you know, and it's writing, trying to, you know, convince people all the time.

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: Very interesting. I love discussions like this like that. Just, you know, and you see it when you see it and hear the tails of it, you know, just breaking down those, your three, that's three different flavors of compelling offers that, that allowed you to compile these three properties that there's nothing like it, you know, and we just, you just missed out on being able to have a compelling offer for the guy behind you. So you can have your drive driveway.

Dan: That's out of question now.

Dean: But imagine that would be the ultimate thing, you know.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's, it's, it's an interesting, I mean, it's just a very interesting thing that, and it has something to do with that. The listing process is actually right from the beginning, that's a competitive process. Yeah, it's competition between the agent and the person who's listing. I mean, to a certain extent it's got a competitive quality to it. And then other agents, you're in competition with the other agents and then the buyers, you're in competition with the buyers. And then you've got the, you know, the mortgaging process and everything else, the banking process, and it's all competitive where what you're doing here with the compelling offer is that you're just establishing right up front the basis for the best possible collaboration.

Dean: I mean that is. That's exciting. I'm always. I'm a word Smith as or I'm looking at the difference between convincing versus compelling. And one of the words that comes up is irresistible is compelling. You know, but convincing is capable of causing someone to believe that something is true or real. That. And that's a different day. They believe that it's real, but now they've got to take the risk. But compelling is, you know, you've got to also believe. You can suspend belief. You don't even have to actually believe that. It's a bypass. It's a convincing bypass. Not able.

Dan: Yeah. And yeah to a certain extent with the compelling offer, you're just delivering something that someone in their mind already purchased.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, they already purchased it. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah. You hit on something where you had the property, your main house, you had that one evaluated by an appraiser. Right. Yeah. A. That is an authority. That's you know, that is a objective, you know, mark of value compared to A real estate agent is always going to have nothing but a subjective view of the opinion of something because their self interest is attached to. To, to it. Right. Or the appearance of. Even if they don't have self interest, the appearance of self interest. They have a vested interest in. In that thing. It's. But an appraiser is objectively giving you the, the, the value.

Dan: They don't have any skin in the game, nor will they ever have any skin in the game. I mean they're paid for their skill and their time. But you've done that already. That's already. That part of it has already been paid for. Yeah. You know, Garnet Morris who's in the free zone and Garnet so tool that's infinitely expandable and you can apply it to any transaction between human beings. Any trading exchange is I think and my sense is this is why new people don't have compelling offers. You know, when you have a new agent, you don't have compelling offers because they're told, well, these are the things that you have to think about if you're a real estate agent and their training is simply based on the making of a convincing argument that's based on probably the average of the, you know, okay. Agents in the. So first of all, you have to do this and you have to do this. Then you have to do. Do this. You know, and you have to get into social networks where you meet people and everything like this and it's all Hard work. That's. Yeah, yeah. And anyway, and I think that the. There is a very powerful, very powerful simplifying factor of what you've introduced here.

Dean: Yeah. And I mean, there's. The more that I think about it and have even unlocked kind of an expanded way of thinking about it just in our conversation today, I. My belief in it is even more secured here. So I've got some more thinking to do around that, around the practical application of, you know, more compelling. Less. Less convincing. That's the model. Dialing compelling up to 11 is really where it all. Where it all happens.

Dan: Yeah. Anyway, I'll think of more examples, you know, where you get a clear cut contrast between what one unsuccessful person is doing compared to what the other successful person is doing. And I bet it just. You can take any human activity and there's a hard way and an easy way and the dividing is between argument and offer.

Dean: Yes. That's the truth, isn't it? Wow. Well, if you live a good life.

Dan: If you live a good life, at the end of it, you get to go to heaven.

Dean: That's a great place to leave it right there.

Dan: That's a great offer. That's a great.

Dean: Yes, exactly. Are you back in Toronto now or are you quarantined?

Dan: No, we're in our quarantine phase, so we got to fulfill our quarantine.

Dean: Oh, boy. Did that get Covid too.

Dan: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Okay, well, you got to take that. I'm not sure who gave it to who, but.

Dean: Okay, we did it.

Dan: But we checked in with the clients on Tuesday and there was no ill effect on them being close to us and none of our team.

Dean: So this put a little damper on you. You were supposed to be up in your cottage by now, weren't you?

Dan: No, we would. Oh, we would be leaving on Thursday. We would be leaving on Thursday and we're going to. By the time we get home, we'll probably leave on Monday. We'll get a weekend and.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: It's okay. It's okay. You know, we live in unpredictable times. So this is just another example. Another example of it.

Dean: Yeah. So we might.

Dan: All right, this was. This was delightful, but I think that this. This actually joins do two of our. Two of our talking points. The joy of procrastination and welcome to Cloudlandia. The both of those are compelling offers.

Dean: Yes, that is true, isn't it? That's exactly right.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Well, I always enjoy them. Dan, are we on for next?

Dan: No, we'll be an unpredictable trends transition at this time. Next week, but the following, you know. Two weeks.

Dean: Okay, perfect. I'll talk to you there.

Dan: Okay.