Screen Time Evolution and Digital Dynamics

Dean: Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Mr. Jackson, you got through hurricane week?

Dean: Not quite hurricane week, Tropical storm week, but we did.

Dan: Oh, Tropical storm. Hey, Notched down in the hierarchy.

Dean: That's one of the good things about living in Winter Haven. It is actually a haven from winter. We are in the center. We are on. Perched on high, dry, sandy land. So there's no storm surges, nothing like that.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. So you're a long way from the coast, aren't you?

Dean: Well, I'm actually an hour and 15 minutes from either coast. We can get to. We can get to either side, and we can get to virtually almost every beach in two hours. Like, it's such a centrally located. We're almost in the exact geographic center of. Of peninsular Florida. So the far I can get to Jacksonville in three hours and Miami in three hours and pretty much everywhere you want to be within an hour. So it's good.

Dan: So I have a question because I've been there. Where is the. Where's the big cattle ranching country? Is that south of you or north?

Dean: It's surrounding us, but sort of north and south in the central. If you think about the middle of Florida, basically, aside from the Orlando Tampa corridor, which is like this, you know, swath that goes all the way across the state from Tampa to Cocoa beach, that area is very developed. But above and below that, the center is much like the Australian Outback in terms of the density of population. And north of. North of I4 in that area, there is equestrian and rolling hills, and there's a lot of equestrian properties there. And ranches south of that is where you'd find a lot of the cattle ranches, sod ranches, orange groves, all of that is in the center. And then you get all the way down to the Everglades, and then the Everglades is one of the big national.

Dan: It's the Everglades. Yeah. Yeah. That was actually on something that was described as the biggest cattle ranch, not only in Florida, but one of the bigger ones in the United States.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: And. And we drove at least 20 miles on the ranch before we got to buildings. Yeah. And it was interesting. Yeah, yeah, it was interesting. Yeah. They had a lot of pigs wandering around and, you know, I asked them were they in the pig business? And they said no, it's just that every, you know, every week or so, the trail hands would like something besides beef.

Dean: Right. Quote, and wrestle them up a hog. Right?

Dan: Yeah, yeah. Have a barbecue. I have a. Yeah, well, you can

Dean: actually, not too far from here, you can do hog hunting where you can Go and hunt hogs in the forest. Yeah. All natural.

Dan: It's not. So it's not Silicon Valley that we're talking about here.

Dean: No, we're really not. We're talking about, you know, rural Florida. This is why I know, you know, you look at Florida and, you know, people talk about population density and stuff, but there's a lot of land in Florida that is undeveloped. I mean, there's a whole there the south of I4, there's another highway that goes all the way across the state called Highway 60 and through Lake Wales, and it's very undeveloped. I mean, there's really nothing all the way from Tampa to Vero beach is where it goes. And it's virtually. It's the only place I've been in Florida where you can, on certain parts of it, look as far as you can see in any direction and see nothing. I mean, it's that. And somebody has bought up. Somebody's bought up like 80,000 acres around what's called Yeehaw Junction, which is where interstate, where the Turnpike, the Florida Turnpike intersects with Highway 60. And you could see easily that you could duplicate the entire I4 corridor, like Tampa and Orlando along Highway 60 with plenty of room to spare. So I'm not worried about the population increase in Florida.

Dan: Yeah, it's really interesting. Peter Zion and one of his frequent, you know, he has his, you know, he has videos every three days. Yeah. And you buddy was talking about all the developed countries, which would be mostly European countries and you know, Australia, New Zealand, you know, he said that the US is by far the country with the least population density. I agree with that.

Dean: Most any look at as densely populated as the GTA is, once you get beyond the gta, it's pretty sparse in Ontario.

Dan: Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, there's an interesting, there's an interesting thing just to give you a sense of how big Ontario. First of all, Ontario is a province and Canada, for those listening. And it's roughly about. From north to south it's about 1200 miles, and from east to west it's 1400 miles. It's actually, it's as. It's as big as mainland. It's almost as big as mainland Europe.

Dean: Isn't that amazing?

Dan: When I found out, not counting Russia, I heard.

Dean: When I found out, you could drive north from Toronto, the entire distance from Toronto to Florida and still be in Ontario. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, that gives you a context for it. And most people don't realize.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I mean, Toronto itself is further south than almost 20% of the United States. People don't realize. No, Ontario dips down.

Dan: No, it wouldn't be that much. But it is south of Minneapolis, south of Seattle. I think it's south of Portland, you know, and then it's quite a bit south. I think it's south of Boston. It's south of, you know, everything like that. It's about. This is about as south as you can get, actually. But I think it's the most populated large city in the world. Furthest north large city in the world.

Dean: Oh, wow.

Dan: I think it's further south. I think it's further north than Moscow.

Dean: Oh, wow. Interesting.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. And it's getting bigger. It's getting bigger.

Dean: Well, there you go. Well, everyone, I'm waiting with bated breath to hear the great air fryer experiment from the Four Seasons beaches. Oh, it's on the counter.

Dan: Okay, it's on the counter. It's on the counter. It's been plugged in, but it hasn't been used yet.

Dean: Okay, okay.

Dan: We sort of inch our way into these new technologies.

Dean: I got it. Just unpack it and set it there for a little bit and just kind of.

Dan: And then live with it. Well, been a week now and we haven't used it. Why don't we use it? You know, so anyway. But it is sitting on the counter. It's a ninja. Is that the kind you have?

Dean: I think I have a Breville is the name of mine. But did you get the one. Did you get the one that Stephen Palter posted?

Dan: I have no idea.

Dean: Oh, okay. That's so. Oh, yeah, that's Babster.

Dan: You have to appreciate how little I take into that sort of thing.

Dean: Exactly right.

Dan: I love that there will be a who. Who's between me and the error.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: Oh, Dan, that's the best any technology in the world. I can guarantee you there will be a who between me and the technology. And I said, what do you think? You know, And I, And I look for people who really love interacting with technology. I want that person. I want that person between me and the technology and I'll ask them what to do. What's it do? I'll tell you what I'm working on. What will it do for the thing I'm working on? Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I've been pretty constant on that. I mean, I've, you know, I was constant on this when I was six years old. I just always let some other human investigate the new technology. And. Yeah, so I've lived, I've Lived a disconnected life when it comes to technology. What explains that?

Dean: Well, I was thinking, you know, about you, and I was thinking how you have the gift of being kind of brought into an era where television wasn't even a thing. Like your earliest childhood was electronic free outside. But were you like. So you were born in 1944, and so it was six years probably. Do you remember when you got exposed to your first television?

Dan: Yeah, I think I was maybe, Yeah, I think it was around 52. I mean, I had seen it. I'd been in other people's houses, Right. They had television. But actually having our own television, I think it's maybe eight years. I was eight years.

Dean: So you got all the way to. You think about this. You got all the way to eight years without being exposed to anybody else's visual bombardment of electronic propaganda or otherwise. Right. Your visual input into your mind was largely formed through your own imagination.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: You had to work, you had to create these visual pictures in your mind.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Did you, do you guys, did you listen to.

Dan: And I was assisted by radio. I remember radio had a big impact on me. And. Yeah, oh, yeah, sorry, Sergeant King of the Yukon. And. Yeah, there was Amos and Andy. We listened to Amos and Andy. We listened to Edgar bergen and Charlie McCarthy. And then there was one that my siblings, my older siblings listened to at night, which was called the Dark Museum, which scared the daylights out of me. And the Shadow. We listened to the Shadow.

Dean: So was the family activity?

Dan: No, no, here you have to get the full impact.

Dean: Okay, sorry, sorry.

Dan: Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Shadow knows. And then you had a 30 minute example of human evil. You know, it was great, but you had to do all the visuals. You know, I. You were the visual director of all these radio programs.

Dean: So was this everybody in the family gathered in the living room, sitting on the couch, listening to the radio like this. Is that what was going on?

Dan: Yeah, there was sort of a. Yeah, there was sort of a dining room, actually, where you could, you know, you could listen. You could listen there. There were a number of radios. There was a radio in the kitchen. There was a radio, I think, someplace else. And it was a big house, farmhouse. And. Yeah, and yeah, but I remember, listen, listening, imagining, you know, imagining there was another series called Sky King. Sky King, which became a TV station. Yeah, and the Lone Ranger. We had the Lone Ranger. So there was a lot of variety and so.

Dean: And that then in 1952, eight years old, you get your first television set.

Dan: I think so. I think it would have been about them. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember the first presidential election was 52, and I can remember that being on television.

Dean: Who was the president?

Dan: Was that Ike Eisenhower?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I like his first term. I like Ike now.

Dean: You know, that's a really interesting thing. Do you remember, like, your new routine when the television came, was that we watching TV every day from that period on or was. Were your parents limiting the TV or was everybody gather round and watch the tv?

Dan: Yeah, I mean, it was a frequent. It was a frequent activity once it came in. That's all I can say. I don't know. I don't know if I watched every day, but there, you know, there were favorite shows. I think Arthur Godfrey was one of the early shows. The Variety Hour and. Yeah. No, so children's. I think there was Howdy Doody. Howdy Doody was, I think, one of them. And Duty Time. Yeah. And I think Soupy Sales was on and. Yeah. And.

Dean: Yeah. I'm just thinking how. Yeah, I remember Romper Room. I just saw a video, Joe and I, at the I Love Marketing event. And I was saying we had all the people streaming from all over the world, and I was doing a little Romper Room. And, you know, about half the people in the audience knew about Romper Room and half didn't. That was kind of interesting. I remember I see Bobby and Johnny, her magic mirror.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And I used to hide behind the sofa so she wouldn't see me.

Dan: Miss Joan.

Dean: Ms. Joan.

Dan: Ms. Jones.

Dean: But I was thinking about.

Dan: It was good. I mean. I mean, it was good, but it wasn't. It wasn't a major part, you know, your, you know, it was only during weekdays, it was only at night and. Yeah. And on weekends, I don't really. There was. I don't know what the years were, but, you know, you got, you know, somewhere along the line you had Jackie Gleason and you had Ed Sullivan and you had other things like that, you know. But I wasn't. I can't say I was captivated because I was usually out. You know, I was outside. We lived in the country, and I was out. And I had really gotten hooked on reading. So I was doing a lot of reading back then.

Dean: Yeah, interesting. But it is kind of.

Dan: What about yourself? I mean, you were born television age.

Dean: I was born in the television age, you're right. And so every day, you know, I mean, yeah, TV was part of every day. And I was just the reason. The context for me thinking about this was thinking about how recent, you know, as each layering availability of content became unlocked kind of thing. Our, you know, screen time has dramatically increased. And I was thinking all the way back to you, that's why I was thinking about you is, you know, literally your first six or eight years, there were no screens. There were the only, you know, you. The cinema of the mind. That was your. That was your entertainment, your imagination. But I remember. So when. I remember when we got our first color television right around 19 or some, you know, early. Like that. And I remember the first show that I saw on in color was the Price is Right with Bob Barker and then. And then all in the Family with Archie Bunker. That was so, you know, in the 70s, it was the Jefferson and Sanford and Son and then all these, you know, the 70s, I think, was the golden era of television. You know, with all these shows becoming, you know, remember Star Trek and, you know, all these. The Rockford Files and Starsky and Hutch, all the Love Boat, all these shows, these iconic shows in the 70s. But you only had, you know, basically the three networks was really all that was creating content, right? So you had abc, NBC, cbs. And then in Canada we had the CBC and TV Ontario. Right? So those were the things. And I remember as a kid, when the TV Guide would arrive, we would get the. We subscribed to the Saturday Star, the Toronto Star, that would arrive on Saturdays and that would have the TV Guide in there. And I remember they would have it laid out like a, you know, a Gantt chart or whatever the time, the grid of times to show you what was all.

Dan: It was like a matrix. It was like a matrix.

Dean: You could see. Yeah. So it would list there were, you

Dan: know, every day had a matrix from morning till night.

Dean: 13.

Dan: But you only had the three. You only had the three.

Dean: There were 13. 13 channels. Yeah, to choose from three networks. And I remember the, you know, organizing my Saturdays in the winter around the cartoons, you know, like, okay, so I would have a highlighter which was recently invented in that. Or newly introduced or whatever to our household. But I would have the highlighter and I would like highlight my. I would do my programming. You know, I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch the Justice League at, you know, 8 o' clock, and then I'm gonna watch Batman at 9. And then I'm gonna watch Shazam and then Scooby Doo and then it was the. We're all about why CBS or ABC's Wide World of Sports. That was like a big thing. And I remember now, like, how much of our. How much of my childhood was around synchronous and scheduled programming that because there was no other option, you had to, if you wanted to see that show, if you wanted to watch the Waltons that was on, you know, my mom's favorite show that was, you had to watch that on Thursday nights or whenever the Waltons were on, you know, and Little House on the Prairie. And it was like your selection, your decisions were made. It wasn't like, what should we watch tonight? Of the like now infinite choices available to us, but we actually spend probably more as a percentage of our time not you, but collective watching, you know, consuming screen content. It's just been a observation. You've, you know, I've had some of these conversations. I'm getting really conscious of, you know, really being aware of my screen time and trying to be more discerning.

Dan: I was just thinking, now that you've got, now that you've got me thinking about it. I left home at 62 when I was 18 and I can't remember until I was 40 actually having a television during that 20 years. Wow. Or 22 years. I went 22 years and you know, I don't remember. I remember people having televisions that I would go and watching sports, things like that. But I went 22 years, so. And then of course I haven't watched it in the last six years. So I've got pretty close to 40 years of my life when I didn't watch television, almost half my life. So I think it's never been a big deal for me.

Dean: Right. And I think now, like I look at kids now, like you think about the technological sophistication and facile nature of technology to 8 year olds today compared to Dan Sullivan at 8, you know, is pretty amazing. But your experience in the outdoors, you know, compared to the average 8 year old, you know, it's so funny, I never see different. Very rare. It's very rare. Even in the 70s, like growing up, you know, the whole period of my childhood, like from, you know, six to, you know, 12, I. You don't see the same sort of pack of kids roaming around on the street that we saw when we were, when I was growing up anyway. I mean, you know, I grew up in the suburbs, so we had like a very active, you know, social ecosystem all every, we were outside all day, every day, you know, playing and making things up and riding our bikes and exploring the ravines and the sewers. And our parents never really knew where we were either. I mean, we were. The idea was you got up and you had Breakfast and you got out and you came home when you got hungry or when the street lights came on at night. That was the. That's the deadline. You know, I heard a comedian talking about that, that it was so laissez faire when we were growing up that they had to run ads on TV at night that said, it's 10:30. Do you know where your children are? Had to remind parents that they had kids. Oh, so funny and true, you know.

Dan: Yeah, it was really interesting. Really interesting. We in London, we have our favorite hotel where we stay in London. And across. They've taken a whole old industrial area and they've completely transformed it so they have a hotel and then they have condos and then they have shops. And there's a courtyard in the middle and you cross one of the courtyards and there's a Japanese restaurant there. I remember being in there one night and there were six teenage girls, Japanese girls, 16, 17. And there were six of them at the table and each of them was on their phone during the entire meal.

Dean: Yeah, they're all talk and interact with other people. Yeah. So funny, right? They're not even there even when they're in the present.

Dan: Struck me their, their world is actually inside the phone.

Dean: Well, that's my point. That's the whole point of Cloudlandia. Cloudlandia is the real world. That's where we all live in.

Dan: Not me.

Dean: No, I mean when I say we all, I mean society, everything. I have to have a permanent.

Dan: You're saying a large number, a large person, a large percentage. A large. Sullivan excluded a large percentage of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a while. It's honestly a different world, you know, I mean, that's, you know, it's. I mean. Yeah, I can't make too many comments on it because I've never really experienced that, you know.

Dean: So we've got a young guy in our, in our Go Go Agent platform. He's a young realtor in Guelph, Ontario. He's in his mid-20s, just getting started on his career and stuff. He's lived in Guelph his whole life. And one of the strategies that we teach people.

Dan: Nice, nice city.

Dean: Yeah, Guelph is a nice place. Yeah. So he's grown up there, you know, really, you know, good looking young guy, very personable. I think he's got a big future. But one of the strategies that we encourage people is to gather their top 150 relationships. The people that if they saw them at the grocery store, they'd recognize him by Name and stop and have a conversation with them, right? And the hardest thing, the funniest thing is he, after racking his brain, could only come up with 88 people on his list of 150 people. And I thought to myself, like, the population of Guelph must be 150,000 people, right in the Guelph area. I mean it's a pretty good sized city. I thought, you know, you look at this, right, that there's a kid who has grown up largely in the Internet world, right? Like largely on, in Cloudlandia. And that's the real thing. The reality is that if you go outside of his bedroom and walk around on the street, he only knows 88 mainland people and he surround. I was teasing him that I said, are you telling me that you've lived your entire 26 years in Guelph and all you know is 88 people and you're walking around surrounded by 149,920. NPC is a gaming term, Dan, for non playing characters. Because all of these world, all of these online video games, GTA or Grand Theft Auto and all these things that are kind of photorealistic things, all the people that walk around in the background are called non playing characters or NPCs. And I said that's really what you're telling me is you've spent your whole life in Guelph and you only when you step outside your bedroom, you no 88 people. That's a problem. If you're in a business that is a mainland business, right?

Dan: The.

Dean: Your house, all houses are 100% firmly planted on the mainland, as are the people that inhabit those homes. So it only makes sense that you're, you know, that you need to get an outpost on the mainland, not in Cloudlandia, you know.

Dan: Yeah, I was just thinking, I was just kind of my company, my team members. There may be some new ones that I don't know, but I certainly know a hundred and, and then my free zone program, I've got 105 in there and you know, some of them, I have to check the list to get their name. But yeah, I'd be over, I'd be over 150 with those two groups.

Dean: Yeah, but there's, and there's that, but it's.

Dan: And then there's an, There's. There'd easily be another hundred with the 10 times group. And then there would be, you know, 20 with Genius Network. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd be up. I'd be, I'd probably be 3 or 400 anyway. Huh.

Dean: And that's. It's a really interesting thing. That's, you know, there's a lot of thing around that. Like, you know, Robin Dunbar, the evolutionary psychology anthropologist from Oxford, he is the one that coined that or discovered that information that the 150 is the magic number. You know, that's the number of relationships that we can manage where we recognize people and have, you know, a current status in their life kind of thing. And that goes back to our first kind of days of playing the cooperation game where we would be tribal and have 150 people. And that was a security thing. If you didn't know the people around you, that was a threat. Right. You had to know everybody. So that's part of it. If it got to 150, what would happen is they would split up and go off and, you know, form other tribes. But that was. There's so many naturally occurring ways that that happens. But I just noticed, you know, how so much of it is for me personally, like, my Cloudlandia reach is a hundred times or more. My mainland reach. Like, if you just think about the, you know, the number of people that, that I know or know me from in Cloudlandia, it's way bigger than the number of people that know me in Winter Haven, Florida, in my own yard, you know. You know.

Dan: Well, it's very interesting, you know, good free zone partner Peter or Stephen Palter, you know, with TikTok, he's got. He's probably got a hundred thousand.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: People who believe that he's their friend, he's their guide, he's their friend. Yeah, yeah. But he wouldn't know any of them, right?

Dean: That's exactly right. So it's very. Yeah.

Dan: I mean, Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift probably has a hundred million easy, you know, probably more. I mean, who know her.

Dean: But Mr. Beast has 350 subscribers. You think about. That's like. That's a measurable percentage of every person on the planet. You know, when you think about. That's almost. That's. Yeah. More than.

Dan: It'll be interesting to see what he's like at 40.

Dean: I wonder.

Dan: He's pushing 30. He's pushing 30 now, right?

Dean: Yeah, I think 26 or 7.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Be interesting to see what that does because we only have really interactive relationships with a very small. I mean, you talk about Dunbar's 150, but actually if you see who it is you hang out with, you know, in the course of a year, I bet it's less than 15. Yeah, that's less. Yeah. But Yeah, I think these numbers, you know, these huge numbers that come with Codlandia, do they mean anything? Do they actually mean anything though, you know? Well, I think that what I mean to that. Do they have any. If you have that large of a reach, does it actually mean anything to you?

Dean: It's certainly from a monetary standpoint. It does from a relationship standpoint, sort

Dan: of a one way thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to one of our social media, we have a social media team here and I says, can you bring me up to date? I'm out there a lot every day, aren't I? On Facebook and TikTok and Instagram and everything. I said, I'm out there. And LinkedIn, I'm out there. And she's, oh yeah, every day here's probably about, you know, five to 10 new messages are going out from you. And I said, that's interesting because every once in a while I run into someone and someone says, boy, I really liked your, I really liked your Instagram the other day. And I said, yeah, well, I aim to please.

Dean: That's your whole thing.

Dan: Yeah, but I have no idea what's going out.

Dean: And that's, you know, that's only going to be amplified when you take, when AI starts creating or you know, repackaging a lot of the, let's face it, you've got a lot of content out there. You've spoken a lot of words, you've been, you know, if we capture everything you say basically is captured digitally, right? Yep.

Dan: Danny's got a lot to say.

Dean: You do? Yeah, that's right. And you've got your, you've got the whole organization. You're the happiest of happy.

Dan: He's very expressive. Yeah, he's very expressive.

Dean: You got a lot of milk.

Dan: Yeah, well, it's. Anyway, we're, I think we're gonna start our next big book. You know, we did the Three with Ben Hardy, which have been a huge success. And I sent Ben a note, I said, you know, it was your idea to do these things. So without your initiative, none of this would have happened. And of course you wrote the three books. So without your writing, none of this would have happened. And we've had really good results from hot leads coming in to coach, from the books that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't done that. But you know, the publisher is giving us a call every month, say, do you have a new book? Do you need a new writer and everything? But we're ready to go. We're ready. And I think so it's going to be. I think it's going to be the one that we're doing with Jeff Madoff casting that hiring. Yeah, it's a nice punchy. You know, it's another one of the punchy titles. And. And so that will come out in coach form in the first week of September. So that'll be printed. I think it went. I think it goes tomorrow to the printer and it'll be printed up. And, you know, I don't know what it is, but I think a lot of people are fooling themselves about reach because they're lacking vision and capability. They think if you have reach, you've got something. But I think if you don't have all three, you don't have. If you don't have all three, you don'T have anything.

Dean: Well, I think it's.

Dan: If you have capability, if you have capability, if you have capability but no vision, no reach, you have nothing. If you have vision but you have no capability and reach, you have nothing, you got to have all three.

Dean: Yeah. You know, it's very interesting. Chad Jenkins and I were talking, you know, he's one of the bigger advocates for the VCR formula. Vision, capability, reach. And we were talking about the. The, you know, the seat of that for people that, you know, whether we were to express them in capital V or lowercase v and capital C, lowercase C, capital R, lowercase R. To see that where somebody. Self. I see a lot of situations where people have a capital C capability that gets discovered, and all of a sudden they are thrust into reach that they have no idea, no vision of what to do with. And it's very interesting. So someone that comes to mind. There's a woman, Safali Shabari, who I met in Toronto through Giovanni. She was a guest or speaker at one of his Archangel events. And she's somebody who has a capital C capability for parenting and that kind of advice. And she got discovered by, you know, Oprah and all the mainstream stuff. She was kind of thrust into the spotlight that was now shining a light on her capability, which brought her tremendous, acute onset reach that she really doesn't have, in my observation, a vision for how to navigate, you know, or what to do with that they're an abundant reach asset with no vision, you know, to. To connect the two. And I think that happens a lot. I think that happens a lot that people get thrust into a. A spotlight and they, you know, have. And often you can have reach without capability, too, and that's a problem. But if your reach is a result of somebody discovering your capability. That is a big. That's the formula. I, I was. You know, I've often talked about Max Martin as a role model, you know, the guy who's written all the number one songs on the radio. That when I really started looking a little bit deeper into it, what I found out was that it was really through the reach of. Of Clive Davis that Max Martin's capability became, you know, that he became Max Martin.

Dean: And because he was just a guy in Sweden producing great music with a capital C capability of making pop songs, you know, and Clive Davis, when he discovered that he, as the president of Columbia Records and the star founder of Arista and Jive Records, all of these subsidiaries, he had tremendous reach to both artists and their audiences. And he was the visionary to pair his artists with this Max Martin capability to create this capital VCR outcome of, you know, all the success that Max Martin has had. And it was only through that pairing of a capital C capability with a capital R reach and a capital V vision that it all really became a big thing. This is my observation. This is all like live, you know, developing, you know, thoughts here around it, because I constantly, I run that filter constantly in, in background. But that, that VCR formula is, I think, a very relevant collaboration tool that if people were really aware of their capabilities and had transparency to other people's vision capabilities and reach, that it. That's where the big connections happen, you know.

Dan: Yeah. I think it requires a fair amount of conceptual capability that you can. You can sort of depersonalize your situation enough to understand what your capability would mean to somebody else. And you have to have a conceptual ability to see what reach would mean. Yeah. For example, I was on a podcast on Friday. I was a guest of someone who is a key player in the land development industry across the United States. And he's in coach and he. So he asked me a lot of questions about coach, and I went through and I explained, and he's got 10 years in coach, and he talked about what each of those concepts meant to him and everything else. And then his podcast is going to go out to 5,000 key players in the land development. Land development business in, you know, probably 25 or 30 states and everything else. And so. And at the end he says, you know, I'm going to send this out and I'll send all the coach information with, you know, and I got off the call and I said, that was easy.

Dean: That was easy. Yes.

Dan: Then all you had, because he had

Dean: to read your C say in your C lane of your capability.

Dan: Yeah, I was, I just stayed in my lane and said what we had done and you know, and then I talked about where I thought we would be, you know, with Coach when I was 100, I'm 80 and coach was 100. And that's kind of a sign, that's kind of a significant statement. It's not the sort of thing you would hear every day from an 80 year old of what things were going to be like when they were a hundred and you know, and you know, and much bigger at 100 than at 80. And it was really interesting. But that was like an hour, you know, I was sitting in the beginning basement of our middle house and you know, I was just talking, you know, really good conversation, a lot of back and forth and, you know, both of us asking the other questions and everything else. And I said, that's pretty cool. That goes out immediately to 5,000. That immediately goes out to 5,000 people. Yeah, yeah.

Dean: I mean, that's pretty great. I mean, you know, when you think about this, of staying in your, in your lane of. That's part of the great thing is that these things, things are largely plug and play, you know, like, and it happens. That's why I say a multiplier, you know, with the, the formula vision plus capability multiplied by reach. That reach is a multiplier.

Dan: Well, they're actually there. Yeah. I think what it is that two of them are. Two of them are addition, but the third one's a multiplier.

Dean: Yes, that's exactly right.

Dan: In other words, you can have vision plus reach multiplied by capability. You can have vision and capability. Vision plus capability multiplied by reach. You can have vision plus reach multiplied by. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's like two of them are inside of a parenthesis. You have, you know, and then the other. That's multiplied by the third.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: So it's very.

Dan: I'm convinced it's three.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: From the triple play. So I'm thinking about a tool right now where I said, who's got the big idea? Who's got the big idea? Who's got the ready to use capability and who's got the ready to use reach? Yes.

Dean: You know, that's fantastic. Like that would be a very useful tool. I think that's, that's a really. Yeah, I think that's a really useful framework for collaboration. Yeah, it fits so well with our whole free zone operating system, you know.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Because we're surrounded by those, those capabilities. Everybody's got a capability in the form of their self multiplying company that they've already kind of established to get to that point. Right. Most people undervalue. They mostly undervalue their own capabilities and reach. They don't see them as assets in most cases.

Dan: Well, even when they have vision, the vision isn't really useful to anyone else. It's only useful to them. Right. Yeah. I mean, your vision has to have, your vision has to have a lot of room for other people.

Dean: That's what. So Chad and I've been talking about this. There's the horizontal vision is within your own capability channel. You know, that they see vision maybe within how to improve their capability or internally. They're all. Their vision is within the walls of their own company. But where the real benefit comes is with, with horizontal vision. I said vertical vision is within your own company. Horizontal vision is being able to see what your capabilities paired up with recognizing someone else's vision that your capabilities could help or how someone else's reach could enhance your capabilities. You know, all of those. That vertical or the horizontal vision is where the collaborative creativity comes.

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: There's so much.

Dan: Yeah, it's a. I think you're right.

Dean: That there's, you know, articulating the thinking tool that helps you recognize and assess what your unique, I mean, unique ability fits within a capability. Right. That's, that's a thing in your organizational unique ability and your unique teamwork all fit within that capability channel.

Dan: Yeah, it was really funny. I, I was, when was it? Thursday, I think. I was invited into a workshop here in Toronto and it was the lead masters group. Okay. So the lead masters group is the lead group of all the people who are still at the signature level after 20, 25 years.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: And they haven't jumped to the 10 times. They haven't.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: You know, their next group would be 10 times. And they just, they're coming, they're a long way off from, from Free Zone anyway. But we're introducing the triple play straight across the program this quarter. So everybody's getting the triple play. And there was a group probably about 40, maybe 40 in the room. And I would say three got it, three got the triple play.

Dean: Understood.

Dan: Yeah. And they said, yeah, why would I do this? And I said, well, to differentiate yourself from everybody else. Yeah, well, I'm not sure why I would do that and everything else. And so this is why I put the emphasis. You have to have a conceptual ability that apart from you, you're just seeing something that exists that's big and it's powerful but it's. It exists outside of you. It's not you.

Dean: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: Somebody else's capability exists outside of you. Somebody's vision exists outside of you and somebody's reach exists outside of you. And you've got to be able to see this as a reality that exists in the world whether you want to use it or not. These abilities, these capabilities, vision and real and reaches outside of yourself. And, and, and then you have to say, if I'm going to use what other people have, how do I have to be useful to them that they would be agreeable to them? And I think that takes a lot of conceptual ability to see how you could be useful to other people.

Dean: Yeah, I agree with that. That's true.

Dan: Yeah. I think there's. I mean, if you can only see within your own framework, you're not going to be vcring any Anything.

Dean: Right, exactly. You're only going to be trying to increase, you know, or improve your own limited vision within your own situation and working on your own capabilities and only with your own reach. It's real. That's where it's like linear. That's linear. And you know, exponential is plugging in to ready to implement reach, vision and technology or capabilities.

Dan: It's really funny because. Well, yeah. Through that how. But, but you have to see the who's as existing completely independent of you. They just exist. You know, they're out there, they're doing their thing and, and they're not going to be interested in you unless there's a big payoff. You know, in other words, they have to say. And it was very interesting because when I talk to like first year and strategic coach, you know, first or let's say signature level first or second. And people will say, well, you have such great people here at. How do you find great people? And I said, you know, where I live, you know, I live in such and such place and we don't have great people like you have great people. And I said, I suspect you do have great people. They're just not looking for you.

Dean: Yeah, right.

Dan: How do you have to be such that other great people would be interested in you as an opportunity? Yeah, yeah.

Dean: Amazing.

Dan: You have to have something compelling.

Dean: You do.

Dan: You have to have something compelling.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Not convincing, but compelling.

Dean: That's right. You know, shaped with a. What's in it for them.

Dan: Yeah, Viewpoint.

Dean: You know, that's. I think Joe's book is amazing to set. I can't. It's one of those things that I can't believe nobody has written that book until now, you know, but just that whole idea of thinking about your vision capabilities and reach from a. What's in it for them perspective with other people, what you can do for other people.

Dan: That's.

Dean: It's very. It's almost one of those things that it's so powerful.

Dan: That's true. That's true. That's true of all new things, though.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I can't believe somebody hasn't thought about this before.

Dean: Ah, right, right, right. Oh, man, that was so. There was George Carlin. He had a thing, a little, you know, comment where he was saying how the English language is so incredible that you'd think everything that's possible to say has already been said, you know, but he said, I'm going to say things tonight here that have never been spoken in the history of the world. For instance, he said, hey, Marge, after I finish sticking this red hot poker in my eye, I'm going to go out and barbecue some steaks. Nobody's ever said those words in the history of the world. So it's not everything hasn't been said. I thought, that's funny, actually. So there.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Well, we.

Dan: Well, we've spent an hour. We did a good hour.

Dean: I think so. I always enjoy these conversations.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And I'm going to.

Dan: I think. Yeah. You ought to zero in on the tool, you know that? Yeah, I'll give some thought to it. But this is your tool, not my tool. I'll give some thought to it.

Dean: I love it.

Dan: All right. Okay.

Dean: Talk to you next week.

Dan: Bye. Okay, bye.