Cloudlandia Efficiencies

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia, Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Mr. Gagson, were you just holding out on me there for about 15 seconds?

Dean: No, I must have had my. I must have had my thing on mute. So here we are.

Dan: Yes. Yeah, yeah. You know something? I'm discovering that it's easier to organize things very quickly and very efficiently in Cloudlandia, but not so much in the mainland.

Dean: Oh boy. Amen. You know, I. There's good, you know, there's good evidence for that. So I've been doing my. I have a new workshop that I do called the. My lead conversion workshop. And we talked about everything from the moment somebody opts in till the moment that you start collaborating with them in your during unit to get whatever result you're going to help them get. And. Oh, Paul Hamilton came to that one.

Dan: Oh, yeah. We've been doing remarkably better with qualified lead generation. If you measure from the beginning of the lockdown until now, I would say two or three times better.

Dean: That's awesome.

Dan: Yeah. And they've attended, you know, it's been. A number of. Our marketing team has attended your lead generation workshops.

Dean: That's awesome. And so you're a lead generator.

Dan: You're a lead generating guru.

Dean: That's right. And what I learned,

Dan: among other notable capabilities, you are a lead generating.

Dean: Well, I've had an interesting insight because the format of this one is that we do three Tuesday sessions in a row. So we, instead of one full day or two days, we do three sessions, three hours each. And I have, about three months ago I had an open spot for one of them the sort of two days before the, the workshop. And I sent out a message saying, hey, I've got a spot for the lead conversion workshop that starts on Tuesday. Would you like to join us? And. And Dan, I ended up getting four new people to come to the workshop and I've done that. Now the last three workshops in a row have had four or five people who drop every, like, do organize very quickly to come on Tuesday even, you know, quicker than. My theory is that it must be easier right now for, for people to see what's going to happen and make a decision about Tuesday then, you know, four Tuesdays from now.

Dan: Yeah, well, think about. Yeah, well, think about. Let's say I look at my calendar and I've got something scheduled for the time that you're offering for the, you know, the special event. So now in order to change what I'm doing to something else, is that something that requires changing travel plans and hotel plans and everybody else that I was doing with it, or is it simply a matter of saying, sure, sure, we can find an alternative date for that. Okay, so, you know, I mean, they. If you want to know the, the, you know, I mean, just the source of human difficulty historically comes down to one thing.

Dean: What is that?

Dan: Gravity.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Doing things in the mainland, I don't care if you're walking across the room. It takes a lot of effort.

Dean: Mm, yes. You know, and that's something I've just stumbled on.

Dan: If you change. If you change your plans on something in the mainland, you're probably going to change the plans of a dozen, you know, dozen different people in the world, whether they were connected with the event or not. They were part of people getting to the event. And that just got changed. That just got changed. And, and. But to just have an idea and look at the calendar and just send out a message, and you're not saying you have to. You're not saying to the world you have to come and show this, but would it, you know, would this be something that you'd like to do? It's all. It's all cheese.

Dean: That's exactly right. And you know, the interesting thing that I've.

Dan: Could you just explain briefly those people who don't know the. Your different. Your binary differentiation between cheese and whiskers?

Dean: Yeah, yeah. So that is something that I read a study about why we use mice in all these, you know, motivational studies. And it's because they. Mice generally act very similarly to humans in. In the motivation and aspiration types of things. And I started thinking, well, that makes sense, because, you know, how we always say that we've got this, you know, mouse brain kind of thing is the core. And I realized that, you know, if you're a mouse, a mouse really isn't burdened with this prefrontal cortex of the brain that's really evolved, and they must have a very simple life. The, you know, the prime directives of a mouse are two things. To get cheese and avoid cats. That's really the two prime directives if you're going to be a cat or a mouse, successful. And when left alone, they're just pursuing cheese all day. And so I thought, metaphorically, it's the same thing that we, as, you know, humans walking around with our mouse brain underneath these layers of our prefrontal cortex here, are roaming around looking for cheese. The good things, the things we want, and we're looking to avoid the bad. The, the, you know, and. And you think about a mouse thing. I will say about what's a Cheese to a mouse is compelling. You don't have to.

Dan: It's a compelling offer.

Dean: It's a compelling offer. You don't.

Dan: It's not a convincing. It's not a convincing argument that was handled millennia ago.

Dean: Yes, exactly. And so there. If there's cheese on. If there's cheese on. On the other side of a three inch door, that mouse will chew through the door to get to the teeth. And as soon as they sense a cat whiskers, soon as they even see whiskers, they'll bolt. They'll immediately retreat because, and I learned this later, Dan, that evolutionarily we've evolved to weigh bad news and danger heavier than positive news and pleasure. And that's.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Survival.

Dan: Yeah. Well, missing out on pleasure. You can always try again tomorrow.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: But not paying attention to a danger. There is no tomorrow.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: The price, the outcome of dangers is 10 times, 100 times worse than.

Dean: Yeah. That's not happening at a. I don't know the right words, but that's not happening on a cognitive, not a conscious happening as on a mitochondrial level that our cells are programmed to go into action. Our automatic response mechanism kicks in just like your hand gets moved from a hot burner faster than you can consciously think to do that. So all of that is really something. And I think that by asking people, by giving this.

Dan: Here's a, here's another example. I just want to attack this on. They found that all primates, in other words, you know, humans, down to, you know, all the monkey, monkey kind of creatures.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Are born with a fear of snakes.

Dean: That's interesting.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dean: Everybody has a fear of snakes.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's really, really interesting is that snakes can get to places. You know, like, first of all, snakes, if you had a snake that, you know, had cheese like appearance, that, that, that snake would be a successful snake.

Dean: Oh, my goodness, yes. Can you imagine? Yeah, that's something that's like the octopus that they mimic food for smaller. Whatever they want. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan: I've stopped, you know, I stopped eating octopus. I mean, I've not made a regular diet out of octopus over the years, but I have it. You know, if I go, I'm, I'm a weird menu, a weird menu guy. If you go to a restaurant, it's got something weird on the menu. I'm likely to order that. An octopus.

Dean: Have you ever tried a cricket?

Dan: Never tried. I never tried a cricket.

Dean: You know. Okay.

Dan: Yeah. But have you.

Dean: I have not. I'm. I am decidedly not. What you would call an adventurous eater.

Dan: Yeah, but, you know, I mean, like the various. Like caribou or reindeer, you know, elk or something like that. Ostrich.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: If it's on the menu, there's a good chance that it was put there for me and I'll be the first one to order it. And. But octopus, I have a rule. I won't eat things that I can have a relationship with.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: Yeah. So, for example, there was a French restaurant here in Toronto. It was in Kensington Market, actually. And I went in and they had cheval on the menu. And I said, what? I forgot my French? He said, west Cheval. And he says, well, source. I said, nope, nope, nope. I can have a wheelchair.

Dean: No, can't have that.

Dan: You know, I. When I was in Korea during the army back in the 60s, you'd go out to eat and they have, you know, they have various dishes. Like bulgogi is very famous. It's, you know, it's kind of like marinated. Marinated beef. But I tell you, when I. Somebody told me, one of the other soldiers, he says, when you go out to Korean restaurants, remember that everything you think is beef bark before they killed it.

Dean: Oh, man. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Can't. Can't eat dog. Can't eat dog. You can have a relationship with dog. Well, I've been reading more and more about octopi, which is the proper plural of octopus. And they're really smart. They're really smart, and they clearly favor one human being over another human being. They. They play favorites and they remember that. They'll remember you two years later.

Dean: Like they. Dan, if you haven't seen it. If you. I don't know if you still.

Dan: I know I saw it. I saw back YouTube.

Dean: Yeah. There's a movie that I just saw called My Octopus Teacher, or I think it was an octopus teacher. And it was a guy who spent a year building a relationship with this one octopus. And it was fascinating. I mean. Yeah, riveting. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I never realized how amazing and versatile octopus. Octopus.

Dan: You know what their problem is? You know, I mean, whales are really smart fortices. Real smart occupy. Real smart. You know. You know what their problem is, though?

Dean: What's that? Fire. Fire?

Dan: Yeah. They never figured out how to. How to use fire. I mean, if you look at human. If you look at human progress, I mean, once you get. Once you get fire, you can do a lot of. A lot of things that you weren't born with.

Dean: You know, the wheel.

Dan: Porpoise. You ever seen a porpoise with a Pack of matches. I mean, it's just never.

Dean: Never. That's funny.

Dan: Yeah. What's this?

Dean: You don't even.

Dan: Yeah. How do you do it? You know?

Dean: Yeah, that's funny.

Dan: You know, they have hands in their fins, so they, it's thought of that. They do land. Yeah. If you look at the. They do X rays of the flippers of carcasses, both front and back. They have little, kind of like little things on the back.

Dean: They can kind of maneuver them.

Dan: And the complete outline of a skeletal hand is in four places. So they had feet, they had hands. So for some reason they went back into the water. So. Ah, whales do too. Whales do too. Whales, they have big, big skeletal. But they, there's no reason for it to take that shape other than at one time it was a hand, you know, and then they graduated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but the, this doll started by the cheese and whiskers and. Yeah, it's much easier in the, I think it's just much easier in the digital world to clearly communicate which you are to a prospective buyer. It's much, much easier to communicate that this is all about cheese.

Dean: Yes, absolutely. And, and the fact that people can.

Dan: And the other thing is if you, if you are being misleading, they just click you off. They don't have to leave the room. They don't have to.

Dean: You know, it's easy to be banished. That's right.

Dan: Yeah. It's easy to be banished. Yeah.

Dean: Yeah. That's amazing. I had an insight this week. I mentioned this kind of the stats about the creator economy and as I was looking more into that. That reminds me, Dan, while we're talking, I'm going to email this to you so you can have it. So this signal fire did a report on the creator economy and some of the numbers were, you know, pretty stunning when I looked through them closer. And the one that was really interesting is the size of the, what they're calling the creator economy there that they estimate it at, at $8 billion is the size of the creator economy and that it is going to grow to 16 billion by 2025 and it's the fastest growing segment of the economy. And how many. The number one thing that Gen z, their number one aspiration is to be a YouTuber. It's the number more. 29% want to be YouTubers as opposed to, as opposed to want to be astronauts. You know, 11% of kids who would normally want to be firemen or those kinds of things, they want to be YouTubers. They realize that's a real Thing now, you know, but my insight was. And it ties back to something that, that you heard from you. Okay, I just emailed that to you just for your site.

Dan: Thank you.

Dean: Told you I would get into that. The they talk about the evolution, the history of it, the platforms, right. Which was in the late 2000s, kind of the, you know, 2007, 8, 9, these platforms were being established. YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, you know, itunes, all of the platforms that made this possible. Then the tools that enable you to build on the platform, the creator tools that do it. And now we're at the point where there are 50 million people who are creators now on these platforms out of the 5 billion people that are users of these platforms. So we're talking about roughly the 1% are sending stuff back up the tubes as opposed to just taking stuff in from the tubes, you know, that they're pushing stuff back up. And once people realize there are more and more people are realizing what this possibility is, they're, you know, creating really viable businesses like this. And my insight when I think about the platforms is where I kind of think about where is this going? Right. Like, where are we right now? As we're all migrating to Cloudlandia? Everybody is. The platforms right now are like imagine the beginning of television. NBC, cbs, abc. Like you, you remember those days. Yes. Where it was all national. There was, they were all one thing, one location beaming across the country from the National Broadcasting center and that.

Dan: And the important thing is that they were broadcasting. Okay. They weren't interacting, they were broadcasting.

Dean: And now then I wonder where in the history of television the. Did the network affiliates come in? Where they started building the local NBC affiliate where your, you know, your, your local cable was from your local TV market. Like all these local market there.

Dan: Well, I think that I just read, I just read a history of this.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: And that's that it's called Attention Merchants by this Tim Wu, who I've talked about before, and he's a lawyer, professor at Columbia University, Chinese American, very charming, very articulate, lots, lots of YouTubes, he has lots of YouTube videos. But he can actually tell you almost exactly when it happened. It happened in the late 1920s and early 1930s with NBC radio, National Broadcasting Corporation. The name says it all, the National Broadcasting Corporation. And what made it possible was that NBC took advantage of AT&T because to have broadcasters, it wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a frequency or a wave that they were sending. They were sending messages through the long distance phone lines. So in order to have radio Distributed and have clear signal, you know, so NBC, let's say they had the, you know, 30 biggest markets in the United States.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But APMT had already established what they called the long lines. And AT and T, by that time had a monopoly. They eventually had, you know, there was just one telephone system. And so if you look at the history of broadcasting, AT&T is always the silent partner with this, because you think about radio, when I was a kid, I used to love listening to radio late at night. This is the late 1940s. And you could tell by the weather report that it was going to be a good radio night. So if you look. Because if you had clear skies, you know, there was no thunderstorms or there's no lightning storms, we could pick up, you know, we lived about 500 miles from Chicago, so we could pick up Chicago, we could pick up New York City, Boston.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Some nights I could pick up New Orleans.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah. And so. But that was iffy. It was iffy. If there was, you know, storm fronts between you and those cities, you couldn't get a clear signal. You got static and interrupted and everything else. So the only way you could solve it is that it had to be a material medium that you were sending it through. And that had been mastered, I mean, by the 1930s, starting with Western Union and everything, they had mastered sending signals, you know, through wire. And so as NBC and abc, that started the possibility for the networks, network affiliates.

Dean: Yeah. And so.

Dan: And NBC was the first, and NBC was the first.

Dean: I think that's where we are now, in cloud.

Dan: Well, I'll give you. Can I tell you how powerful it was? The first real big network show was Amos and Andy. Okay. I mean, you talk about Seinfeld or you talk about Friends. The first, first week, you know, the first year of Amos and andy, it was 81%, 81% listening audience. Wow.

Dean: Isn't that something?

Dan: Yeah. And then RCA was very much involved in that, too. So you got these really big, big, you know, these really big Goliath corporations AT and T. RCA and NBC were like the trifecta.

Dean: Yeah. And that's. So it's pretty interesting, like, to think now if you could mirror that evolution. Right. Like everything, all of these things, Everybody's been treating YouTube and Instagram and all of these things as a national broadcasting opportunity, that they're sending it out to the world. Right. To all of Cloudlandia. And this combination where now you can take that, but also then tailor content for the local mainland areas as well. There's, I Think there's an opportunity for somebody to organize the essentially the same network affiliate models to have.

Dan: Can I tell you why it's different from what they did 100 years ago? They were monopolizing scarcity.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Cloudlandia doesn't have any real estate. Right.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: In other words, you come up with an idea and you've got someone to listen to it. You've just created yourself a global. You know, it's a goal. I don't know if it's a network, but it's. It's. You know, it's. Well, here's a We. Gord Vickman, my podcast manager, and I did two podcasts on Friday with Paul Colligan. Okay. And Paul's always great to talk because he's really up to date on the podcast world, you know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Really. And he's kind. He's kind of telling you what's happening here. And one of the things he showed. And this is. This struck me as being kind of amazing when I heard it. And he took us back as Paul's the one that set up the 10 times talk program, the podcast program with Joe and me. And we started in August of 2012. That was episode number one. And Paul brought in figures. He said, episode one of 10 times talk. Do you know how many times it's been downloaded in 2021? And I said, no. He says, 188 times. So something that was created 188 times. And he says, and it's 30 different countries. 30 different countries have downloaded it.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And, you know, I mean, I guess if you had thought about it, you would have seen the significance of this. But it just struck me is that if you're just coming across a podcast series, Something that happened 10 years ago is brand new.

Dean: Yes. That's the great news. Right.

Dan: And it's living.

Dean: Just talking with.

Dan: It's living without cost.

Dean: Right. That's exactly it. I love Joe Polish. I was just talking with him a couple of days ago and I had this idea of. It just came to me of a revisiting of. We're coming up on 10 years of I Love Marketing. It would be an interesting.

Dan: How many do you have out there?

Dean: 300 or so over that? Almost 400 now.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: To have a series called I Love I Love Marketing. To go meta on it and to talk about the episodes of the. Like to re. Bring them up, because there are some amazing gems in there, including you and I doing a conversation about the first mention of more cheese, less whiskers, because, yes, we Talked about that at a genius network event or meeting and you, we were talking about that and then I remember the, the self milking cow too. One that came out of that. Like all these things, the seeds that were dropped, the, the nine word email as an example. There's so many things that are deep in the archives of I love marketing that are just as valuable or have taken on lives of their own.

Dan: Yeah, well, you know what's really interesting is that the, you know, I mean the next five to 10 years, I think certainly in the United States and I think it'll spread around the world, there's going to be a coming to grips between the political system and the digital corporations. So Facebook, Twitter, Google, I think in particular Amazon too. And the issue here is a U.S. constitution issue. I mean if anyone out there knows U.S. constitution, the very first thing you get to in the Constitution are the Bill of Rights and the first one is freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. And whereas it's true that Facebook and Twitter and Google are not the only organization, they're not the only platforms of their kind. They have virtual monopoly control now. They have network effect. They have network effect. In other words, it's impossible now for anyone using the platforms that they have. It's impossible for anyone else to get started and grow because they did it when it was really cheap, they got started when it was really cheap. And you know, and they, they build it on people's habits. Is there a search engine? You know, I mean, is there another search engine out there? For example, with me, I'm an Apple guy, so I never go to Bain as my, you know, as my search engine. Search engine. I go to Safari and Safari spaced on Google and yeah, why would I, why would I go to this other thing? It isn't any better. And you know, and even if it is better, it's hard for them to show me how because I'm not really interested in their story. You know.

Dean: You're not shopping, right?

Dan: No, I'm, I've got a cupboard full of cheese. I don't, I don't need there.

Dean: Yes. Right.

Dan: And, but they're showing more and more whiskers because they're interfering with the political process.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: So Facebook coming out and banning Trump for two years, that's, that's not a, that's not a business marketplace decision. That's a political decision.

Dean: That's a problem for them because now they can't hide behind. We're just a platform because that is an editorial decision.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: That makes them just a publisher yeah, yeah. Now they have accountability.

Dan: Yeah. And what they don't realize is that. And I saw an article, and it was on. It was on Breitbart. I saw it on Breitbart. And Breitbart is kind of an independent. You know, they're independent in the. That world. And they're big. They're really. They're really big. Netflix, what's it called, News. Newsmax is another big one. And the interesting thing is that a writer in Washington who I follow, Charles Hurt, he said, actually, the first of all, they got an email sent by mark Zuckerberg to Dr. Fauci saying, hey, let's get together and create a special platform just for you. So, you know, and they've got. You know, it's from Mark Zuckerberg. They've got the email, and he's, you know, I mean, Dr. Fauci's in the spotlight right now. And whatever you think about it, I

Dean: haven't seen anything about. Understand there's. Now, I saw something called Fauci Gate, I guess What's. What's. I don't. I missed what's happening.

Dan: So. Well, the US Passed a rule. There's. There's a term in this biotechnology called gain of function. It's called gain of function. And what gains. Function is, is that you take a virus and you weaponize it. In other words, you take a virus and it's, you know, it's a form of weapons creation. And the US Banned this. The US Banned any funding into gain of function as a general rule for pharmaceutical companies, scientific labs. It turns out that Dr. Fauci's organization abided by this. But he made an exception for one clinic in the world, and it was the Wuhan Lab in China. And they got it in writing. I mean, they got his exception writing and everything else. And not only that, but he was sending them money. You know, this goes back 20 years. Goes back 20 years. And every time it's come up, he said, yes, but I'm making an exception for the Wuhan left. Now. I think he's a silly old. You know, I'm really. If I look at him, I think he's a silly old civil servant who doesn't have a very, very strong sense of outside reality and has an enormous sense of bureaucratic backstaging. And he never in his wildest dreams dreamed that he would be in the spotlight with something like this. And a star was made. Wow. He's like Mr. Beast.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: In another realm. And, you know, the truth of it will be revealed. But they. They got a couple thousand of his emails, and they're. He doesn't look good. Wow. This is from his emails. Now you got Mark Zuckerberg, who never looks good. Yeah. Mr. You know, is he human Talking to Mr. Doesn't look good, so.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Wow. How's that? How's that for your afternoon conspiracy making menu?

Dean: I caught up.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. So this is happening. But here's something that doesn't know is that the. Right now 30 of the states in the United States are fully governed by the Republicans. They have the upper hand. They have the governor, they have the legislature, and the attorney generals can act as a group. So let's say you get 30 attorney generals of states in the United States. They got a lot of wallets, and they just SUE Facebook for $10 trillion. Let's put up a number. And this is for all the damage that Facebook has caused by not allowing. A completely wide dissemination of news about the COVID virus, which they have just, you know, not allowed anything that would indicate that this might be deliberate on the part of the Chinese, or it may have been an accident, but they covered up the accident, and there were people in the US who were conniving with the Chinese and money was being sent. None of that has been allowed to be on Facebook for the last year. And they said, as a result of this, you have caused us collectively $10 trillion in damages now and into the future.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: And we could do that with Twitter and we could do that with Google, you know, but this is where it's getting dicey. And this is where the mainland world really comes into play. And that is there are things called countries, and there are things called, you know, things called laws, and there's things called. And if the effect of your land activities are that you've done provable damage in the mainland, then probably you're gonna. You're gonna spend your time in the mainland process.

Dean: This is. If there's so many intricacies or layers to this interaction and fluidity between the mainland and Cloudland, where those all. You know, because there are things that are. I'm trying to think about how to, you know, clarify things. Like there are things that can 100% take place in Cloudlandia, and that's. We're seeing that in every manner of physical good, that every physical product and

Dan: eliminate digital as a digital presence.

Dean: Well, that even a physical. Even a physical product. Right. If it's a physical product, that's as is and doesn't require, you know, doesn't. For whatever reason, like frozen food or fresh food or fresh local vegetables or things like that. Anything, you know, that's why Amazon books and electronics and, you know, clothes items, home goods, every physical product can be 100% transacted in the cloud, often far more conveniently than you can do it on the mainland and have it brought right to you at the very latest tomorrow, no matter where you are. And so I'm looking at where this happens on that spectrum. And then you've got sort of hybrid things like food, where you can 100% organize the transaction in Cloudlandia, like Mr. Beast Burger, Uber eats all of that stuff where you can see what you want, order it, tell them to deliver it to you, but it has to be done on the mainland, locally, within that zone of where you are. And this is where I'm looking on. The things like your. Your haircut that you get every week in the same place is. You can't digitize your haircut. You've got to go to Yorkville.

Dan: But I can get him to deliver.

Dean: So either way, he's got to come to you, or you've got to go to Yorkshire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what I'm. That's what I'm talking about.

Dan: The,

Dean: you know, this hybrid thing, like, where there are things that are decidedly much more local than.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. And this. This is part of my contention, you know, that I've made. And I don't know if you've gotten your book yet, but I put out the book Zooming Ahead, and I think, ahead, I said, the best way to think about this is that, you know that Zoom has a new travel. It's a new travel system. Right. And I said, because. Are people not communicating in other ways because of Zoom? No, they're still using their cell phones or still emailing there. They're making use of every single other communication device. So Zoom is not threatening anybody's communication network. They're threatening transportation systems.

Dean: Yes. Yeah.

Dan: I mean, who. Who is not making money a year later because 500 million. Zoom grew 50 times. Well, no.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Any form of transportation is getting lots of people's dollars. Yeah. Than they were last year. And you're thinking through things that were just automatic. I mean. Yeah. You know, think of our track, your travel, you know, every year, your travel routine, and my travel routine now. It was unconscious in the sense that it was habitual. You didn't give it any thought. Yeah. You didn't give it any thought. You said, well, right, It's Chicago week. We have to go to Chicago. So eight months out of the year, I had a Chicago week. Well, let's just. You didn't give it any thought.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And now you're saying we've done without Chicago week now for 15 months, and we're still getting the economic benefit of the Chicago week. We're just not going to Chicago.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: What change?

Dean: Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it is really amazing. Like, I look at that for myself even, like, since. So in the last 15 months, I've missed five or six trips to Chicago, I guess.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: So far. So all I've missed. Is.

Dan: So that's. Well, actually, the biggest thing that you. The biggest thing that you've missed is dinner at our home, you know. Dinner.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: Conversation at home, you know, And I do miss that. Yeah.

Dean: Yes, you're absolutely right.

Dan: And the moment. The moment that you go back to that schedule and we go back to that schedule, we'll be having dinner. We'll have dinner at our house, you know.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: So. Yeah, so. So my sense is that when you, you know, going back to your creator. Creator economy. First of all, I think it's. You're using those numbers, but I think, in fact, that it may be 10 times bigger than can be measured.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Because it's. For example, if you use the zoom model, they're up 50 times in a year. So there's 500 million people, if they count every. Every user. Every daily user. So it's 500 million, and that's daily users. That's. Yeah, that's not all users. That's just daily, you know, and. Well, no, it's the total number of daily users, but it's probably not 500 million the same people. There's some people who do it once a week or they do it twice a week, and. And there's some people, like. Certainly my case, I would say, on average, all the days since Last March is three hours a day. On average, three hours times 365. And the whole point is, what do you suppose is going on with those 500 million daily users? What do you think they're up to?

Dean: Yeah. Well, I wonder. It would be interesting to see how many of them are, you know, remote workers who are employees of a big organization. How many are teachers and students, and how many are, you know, entrepreneurs creating virtual classrooms or virtual events? Like, I think this is. I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday about this is. I think this is the age of. What I've been saying is once people realize that we're in the once people Realize age that once people realize, for instance that you can get the same response rates with digital Facebook ads that you get with postcards for 110 the cost. Once people realize that and have that sort of framework around something, it makes. Facebook makes sense and there's so much you think differently about it. Right. And I think that the same thing. Once people realize what you could actually do with the platform of zoom, like once people realize, like me and you, that once people realize we can have 25 person events that are intimate and interactive without the travel and without the thing, the hassles, it's. It's going to be difficult to go backwards from that, you know. You know, it's funny. Barenaked Ladies in Canada had an amazing concert that they went through all of the things where they were at. I think it was Massey hall where they did live concerts at Massey hall. But there was nobody in the audience. Audience. It was 100% to be streamed. So it was like full production value of a real live concert, met, purpose, built to stream that people could watch it at home. And you realize you can go reach the whole globe with one concert, like a pay per view, you know, like tonight. Dan, I don't know if you follow on the news, the sports stuff, but Floyd Mayweather is fighting tonight. Logan Paul, who is a YouTuber who's built up to the, you know, this international guy with enough clout to pull off a pay per view fight with Floyd Mayweather that will bring.

Dan: He doesn't die. He's. What if he doesn't die, he's won.

Dean: Yes. Hundreds of millions of dollars. Exactly.

Dan: No, I mean, if he doesn't die.

Dean: Yes. I mean, isn't that something? I mean it's so. I mean this is, this is, it's so. I'm streaming the fight of course tonight. So we'll see because this is going to be a fun research thing. But.

Dan: Well, it's really interesting that you bring this up because I marked the beginning of the digital age. When was the thrill in Manila? That was 1973.

Dean: It was,

Dan: it was George. It was. Well, Muhammad Ali.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Joe Fraser. Joe Fraser. And it was the first event of its kind. And I say of its kind because the moon landing at a. You know, 1969 had a huge. Yeah, but the, but for a form of entertainment.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, is it was the first complete satellite event live in the world. Yeah.

Dean: Is that right?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Remember in 1972, the, the hockey, the Russians and Canadians.

Dan: Yeah. Well, that, that might have been, that might have been before. Although hockey's a more specialized sport.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Boxing is. Than boxing is. Yeah, yeah.

Dean: Could be.

Dan: Could be. But a lot of people said that where the event itself, that it was satellite and global was talked about as much as the. The event itself. There were two events. There was, you know, the heavyweight championship fight, most watched ever. But the big thing was that it was watched every. Everywhere. And so.

Dean: So, yeah, funny that that's, you know, there's a example of the regional thing of it. Like, you know, the. The series in 72 between Canada and Russia was really. Everybody in Canada knew that I was friends with Paul Henderson, who. There's not a person in Canada who doesn't know who Paul Henderson is.

Dan: But, you know, I was at my ad agency and we got together and we watched. Everybody watched, you know, everybody watched the

Dean: live, you know, and the goal. I mean, that's like the.

Dan: It's exciting.

Dean: It's like everybody in Canada knows exactly. Exactly where you were when Paul Henderson scored the winning goal. And so there's. That's a perfect example of a guy who has amazing fame in Canada. And as soon as he walks across the border, nobody knows who he is. No, it's an interesting thing.

Dan: Yeah, yeah. So these are. I mean, the thing that I'm appreciating about, you know, where we're going with this today for observing and seeing the difference in learning.

Dean: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: That we're very quickly, you know, shifting into a. Another world. And I see a couple things here that, you know, there's difference of degree and there's difference of kind. You know, think about things. You know, this is 10% different than something else. But difference of kind is that you're. You're measuring it in a completely new environment. And I think that what you're talking about is a difference of kind.

Dean: And where I mentioned in the very beginning what was. I think a good similar story was. I heard you one time talk about these sign wars between. I think it was two hamburger restaurants saying best hamburger on the street and then somebody putting up.

Dan: I think it may have. The one that I heard, it may have been a furniture. There were two furniture companies and they were.

Dean: There we go. So tell me the progression.

Dan: Well, one, they, you know, they've been competing with each other forever. And then one of them said, best. Best furniture store on the street. Nail. And responded by saying, best furniture the downtown. Next one. Best furniture in the city. Best furniture in the state. Best furniture in the country. Best furniture on the planet. Best furniture in the solar system. Best furniture in the cosmos. Best. Best Furniture store on the street.

Dean: Exactly. This is where I think we're somewhere between the universe and the cosmos or however.

Dan: Yeah, if you really want to be. Yeah, I just, I think we're gonna

Dean: land back at the street, you know.

Dan: Can I tell you one that I'd like to talk about next time? So, yes, they finally, you know, are interviewing everybody in the uk, apparently. This is the British Broadcasting Corporation. They finally got to Prince Edward. You know who Prince Edward is?

Dean: I remember, I've heard those words, but I can't, I couldn't. Yeah, Prince Edward is the man.

Dan: Prince Edward is number four of the Queen's children. So you got Charles, then you got Anne, then you have Randy, Andy, you know, and Prince Andrew. And then there's this fourth one called Prince Edward. And Prince Edward has had, you know, he's probably, certainly in his 50s. Certainly, you know, probably maybe late 50s. Wow.

Dean: Very low key.

Dan: Well, not only that, he's just got the dream world. He gets all the benefits of being a royal, but nobody knows him. So anyway, they finally got, and he was in filmmaking. He, you know, he had a, you know, he was partners in a film company. They did documentaries and he does other things. But, you know, about 20 years ago he just settled down to doing the royal thing, you know, openings and closings and funerals and everything else. And he's married to a woman who owned a public relations firm, which I thought really good. So they got around to the Megan and Harry, you know, Meghan and Harry, against the royal family. And, and they, they asked him what he thought about it and he said, oprah, who?

Dean: You see.

Dan: And what I found really, really interesting, you know, is that some people are saying, well, you know, what a dummy or whatever like that. And I said, no, he's part of a bigger brand than Oprah is. He was born into a brand that's been around for hundreds of years and will be around forever. And Oprah isn't Oprah Zara.

Dean: Right.

Dan: It was to Oprah's advantage to actually have something that put her in the spotlight again. Because she's been fading, you know. She's been fading. Yes. She's getting older, she's fading, she's rich. Yeah. But ask, you know, ask, where would you start below which age you'd have to explain who Oprah Winfrey is.

Dean: Well, I don't think you'd have to. I think it would be certainly. Yeah, I'm not sure whether today's 20 year olds would know who Oprah is.

Dan: They might have heard the name that they. Yeah, they wouldn't. They wouldn't see her as this major, Right, global thing. Well, I think the Queen, you know, the Queen. The Queen is the only queen of her kind on the planet and likely to be the only. The only one going forward now.

Dean: The last one.

Dan: Yeah. Well, I don't know about that. Well, certainly the last family, you know, where you have succession.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But, you know, now that the British have escaped from having their identity tied up with the eu, you know, now I'm noticing. I know the Brits are really great packages. Have you noticed that when you're in London at the stores and everything? Yeah, they have a great package. They have a great packaging instinct, you know, branding. And now they have this thing called Global Britain. And now Britain is going out and Britain is going to relate to everything in the world because they already have the Commonwealth. You know, they've got this old, you know, representation of the British Empire. I think there's about 65 countries in it. And they're renewing all their relationships with all these places, including the US and Australia and New Zealand and Singapore and India and everything like that. And they're going back. But the Queen is really part of that brand, this big global brand. So she's there. So I was saying that, you know, probably Megan and Harry really, really have to scramble every day to not be forgotten. But here's Edward, you know, he just floats down the royal river, you know, I mean, he's. He's number. Number four. And, you know, he. Nothing's required of him. He doesn't have to do anything. And. But so when he was asked what he thought about the Meghan and Harry thing, his answer really told me that he said Oprah. But he was differentiating between the brand that he belongs to and another brand that Harry and Meghan were trying to attach themselves to some other brand. I think he was just defining that. And you know, what the Queen did, if you think about it, and we can talk about this, she got Great Britain from the mainland to Cloudlandia with a single rain.

Dean: Wow. How so, do you think? I mean.

Dan: Well, the Telegraph, which is a London paper, they had a zoom call with five people. They had a, you know, they had a journalist and then they had four medical experts in the Queen and they had a zoom call, one right around the world, a zoom call with the Queen. And the Queen's talking about how she had gone down and got her vaccinations. You know, she said, I don't know, like a lot of people, I don't like shots that much. I was a little bit worried. But, yeah, it was really easy. It's really. I think it's really good. I think everybody ought to pitch in, you know, I think we ought to just pitch in, you know, and. But she had made a. When she was 15 years old, this was 19. She had been the first, not the king, but the child of the royal family, who gave national addresses. Actually, it was Commonwealth wide, where she was explaining to the children of England why they had to leave the big cities and go out into the country because of the bombings. So that was 1940. And she's doing the same thing in 20. 21. 71. What was it? 50, 60. 70. 70. 70. 70 years. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So what I'm saying is that some brands from the mainland will jump to the cloud by envia during this period of time.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So we can talk about that. But this is really interesting. I mean, this is really interesting stuff.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And everything that was true in the mainland just got 10 times more complicated, You know. You know, transportation, you know, everything that happens where the law of gravity and I guess there's some gravity attached to everything. Probably has some sort of gravitational price to pay.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But we're sure not paying a very big, big one for the last 15 months.

Dean: Amazing time to be alive.

Dan: Oh, it is. And to be commenting on it and observing it and.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Putting up. Putting our own brand on it. We are damp on those.

Dean: The cartographers of Cloudlandia.

Dan: We're the cartographers of Cloudlandia.

Dean: I couldn't see it better. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. All right.

Dean: Well, I always enjoy it, Dan.

Dan: I'm on for it.

Dean: Feels like I must have a workshop coming up sometime.

Dan: Yes, you do. Pretty soon. Pretty soon. Yeah.

Dean: I can't wait.

Dan: Actually, you can. Over the next few months, you can do a. You can do a workshop every week if you want.

Dean: Hey, there we go. Okay. I like it. I'm gonna. All right, Pop in. Thanks, Dan. Okay.