Vision & Mindset

Dean: Welcome to Cloudlandia. Well, welcome to Cloudlandia, Mr. Sullivan.

Dan: Yes. Yes. Feeling more like home. It's feeling like more. A lot more like home.

Dean: It does feel like that, you know, it's so much. Yeah, it's. I'm really getting a different perspective on time now. Like I'm really noticing that as I'm 55 now and I have a very different perspective on time than I did when I was 35 and a very different perspective than when I was, you know, 25. And it's a really interesting. Because I remember thinking distinctly, you know, at 25, I think, or maybe a little. I think when I first started strategic coach 1997, I was 31. And I remember thinking then even that five years out seemed like a long amount of time, like a distant untellable future, you know, and you've really, you know, you opened my eyes to this. I think that's evolved for you too though. A 25 year Vista. 25 years seems normal to think and we've had enough, you know, that's almost 25 years since I first got. I mean I first found out about strategic coaching.

Dan: Next year, next year I'll be 25.

Dean: Yeah. But I found out about it a year before I actually joined because I had a friend and client at the time, Alan Kearns, who was part of your program, introduce it to me. I went, I remember to meet him. Yep, I went to meet him at, at the office there. And I was so impressed with the environment even. I mean the environment was amazing. That whole lofty kind of. And of course, Liberty Village wasn't Liberty Village back then. It was out in the, you know, an industrial kind of. Right.

Dan: Yeah, it looked like it was an industrial complex that had survived. Have survived intact the war, but all the industry was gone. Open fields, broken glass, empty warehouses, some of the windows out.

Dean: But I remember then I got a. I got a copy of your how the Best Get Better was the thing. When. What year did you write? What year was how the Best Get Better?

Dan: I think it was, you know, like probably about a year before you're talking about. So I think it was probably around 96. Around 1996.

Dean: Yeah, because it was.

Dan: That came out. Yeah, we were. That when we were sort of path creating cassette packages, you know, where we have a book and we'd have probably three cats, three cassettes with it.

Dean: Yes, yes. So that's what I got. So I remember that. And that was like my introduction to Strategic Coach and I listened to that and read that again and again. I Got one and gave to, to Jerry Ballinger and introduced that to Jerry and to Terry Hennefeld and just. And that's how it all. That's where Joe Polish got.

Dan: Yeah, Joe came in 97.

Dean: Joe.

Dan: Yeah, Joe came in 97. That was when Joe came in. Yeah, we've got. Yeah, I mean it's kind of funny. I have three in the free zone. Yourself, Joe and Steve Kryn came in in 97. So I know these states.

Dean: Yeah, isn't that something? But there's an example of you had just to think about the impact of a knowledge product that you were calling it using at the time. That was a little book with a big concept how.

Dan: And gave me a lot better. Well, yeah, I mean it's, it falls nicely into your structure of vcr. You know, I had a vision, you know, I gave a vision of high achievers, you know, what you could do and then you have capability and then reach, you know, and. Yeah, yeah. And that was interesting. I did a free Zone Friday, a two hour free zone. And I've introduced a major new tool for the free zone called Free Zone ground rules. And I have eight ground rules and it's a discussion piece. And, and it was funny because Steve Krein was there and Steve is usually in. Any discussion is first off the mark. You know, you present any. Steve will have a very good question about it. And, and so the, the first ground rule is that what holds a collaboration together is that both sides want to be a hero to the end, same end user. Okay. That you're already independently of each other are creating value for an end user and when you compare notes, you realize that it's the same end user. Okay. And, and, and right away Steve said, yeah, well, he said, I know, you know, one of your collaborations is with Peter Diamantis with a 360 and who do you see the end user there? And I said, well, you know, high achieving entrepreneurs who will benefit from understanding what technological breakthroughs can do for them in their future. Yeah, that's. And I said I'm kind of a knowledgeable civilian, but I can't hold myself out as an expert because I don't know who the players are. I don't really know, you know, the actual, you know, what the decisive difference is about any technology and where it's going and everything. But Peter Diamantis does. So what I decided was that if I give Peter an audience, he'll create non stop content and he gets all the ownership of this and he gets all the money of this But I get his capability for 25 years. And that was the deal, you know, and we're into our 10th year now. We're in our 10th year with it. And I know he's happy with the collaboration, and I'm very happy with the collaboration. So Steve was saying, well, you know, this. Can I ask you a question about this?

Dean: He said.

Dan: And he said, it has to do with strategic coach, actually. And my question is, who's your end user now that you want to be a hero to? And he said, because as I understand that new entrepreneurs can't come into the program and have you as a coach, there was a period during the last 10 years when they could do that, but they can't do that anymore. And I said, yeah, I said I'm not the best coach for the basics of the program, you know, because, you know, that was something I was doing 30 years ago. That was something, you know, 25 years ago. And now I'm working the new concepts that work for the entrepreneurs who are at the most advanced stages, which are yourself and therefore the end user. Kermie is someone who will come into the program at a lower level, but within a matter of years, they'll be in the free zone. So that's my end user. And then I'm looking for outside collaborations that would also support my free zone clients.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And it was a great conversation. I mean, it went on. And we have eight ground rows, and in the course of two hours, we got through two of them.

Dean: Wow. Is there a free zone this week coming up?

Dan: There's. Yeah, Thursday. Thursday is a Thursday. It's a free zone.

Dean: Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna. I'm gonna hop on.

Dan: Start. Starts at 10 o'.

Dean: Clock.

Dan: Because it's 10 o'.

Dean: Clock. Right.

Dan: The Chicago, you know, it's the one in October is at 9:00 clock Eastern. The one on Thursday is in the 10:00 clock time zone. That's the only thing you got to be absolutely certain about to utilize Zoom properly, to know which time zone an event is taking place in.

Dean: Right? That's true. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm looking forward to that. But that's interesting. So this whole idea of the ground rules, is that something we can talk about here or what. What would be.

Dan: No. Yeah.

Dean: Well, what applies?

Dan: I mean, I don't remember that. I don't remember them all because they're brand new. It's brand new tool. I created it on Thursday. I created it on Thursday and tested it out on Friday, which is lots of time. I mean 24 hours to get ready for something. As you know, it's lots of time. It's almost a luxury of time that you would be finished with it. 24 hours.

Dean: What am I going to do with all this time?

Dan: Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm kind of remiss. I should actually have it memorized by now. Yeah. But one of them, and number two is interesting that as you're developing independently, so for example, Dean Jackson operating independently, Dan Sullivan operating independently. Could these two individuals who are essentially creating thinking concepts for entrepreneurs, successful, high achieving entrepreneurs, wouldn't they be competitors? I said no, what you're doing is completely independent and it'll grow and grow and grow. And what I'm doing is independent and I'll grow and grow and grow. And if we never collaborated, so let's say over the next 10 years we didn't collaborate at all. We wouldn't be competing either. We wouldn't really be competing because you've got your universe and I've got my universe. But if we did collaborate and each of us knew how to make money our own way, it would be super creative. I think it would be super creative because we're not putting our money on the table, we're not putting our ownership on the table, we're just putting our capability on the table.

Dean: Yeah, I look at that like when you're saying this idea, a lot of the things that I do have, I would say a bigger impact on the entrepreneurs that are, once they figure out what it is that they, who they want to be a hero to and what they want to do is creating the algorithm that helps them 10x to get to the point where they are now free to think about free zone collaborations. You know that's, that's really the, where I have the biggest impact I think for, for entrepreneurs is figuring out how to create the engine that, that drives them. You're getting to the point of being, of growing their business to where they can have a self managing, self growing company based on the scale ready algorithm. And that's where your everything that the, you know, the 10 times sort of version of strategic Coach is really, I think that's where it meshes the most.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Is that your observation?

Dan: Yeah, I mean, yeah. Yeah. Well the model, you know, the VCR example that, yeah. Our last podcast, the Macy that's suited for the free zone Toys R Us, I said, you know, that's just a no brainer because never in their history did Macy's and Toys R Us Ever compete, you know, but in fact, they have the same end user in the sense that families. Family. There's a lot of what Macy's does, which is great for families and Toys R Us are really great for children who are in families, you know, and, and I said it's just, it's just a no brainer, you know, unless they really, you know, have a goal of screwing it up. There shouldn't be any screwing up of this, of this model because neither is asking the other to do anything except what they're really good at.

Dean: Mm.

Dan: And that. I think that's that. And there's thousands of opportunities for two capabilities to get together where all each of them is required to do is just do what you're doing anyway.

Dean: Mm. Yeah. Especially if there's excess capacity. That's really. That's the big thing.

Dan: Or they're lacking. Either they're lacking something, you know, that there's something that for them to supply for themselves, what they're lacking is a law and drag. It's a long, expensive drag.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And as long as they're not worried, you know, about money, you know, as long as they're not worried about money, then they can acquire a capability almost for nothing. Okay. Because in fact, they. The. Well, Macy's had spare capability, which was

Dean: space,

Dan: space and location. Macy's had spare capability. 400. They have 400 spaces everywhere in the US and Toys R Us, Toys R Us had spare capacity that, you know, families and children will buy any toy already available and newly created if they're just given a place to actually see them. You know, actually look at things.

Dean: Even if you took the, the top 20% of the toys that would be in a standalone Toys R us, the top 20% are going to account for 80% of the sales. And you put it into, you know, the 20% of the space in, you know, I mean, Macy's giving up 20%, their bottom 20% of the space that's not selling, you know, per square foot. What it could consolidating there, you know, they could certainly get by with 80% of the space that they have in the store.

Dan: Yeah. Right now Toys R Us are giving up the top 80% of their cost of space. Yeah. And there. But the other thing is that they're acquiring. They're acquiring traffic that Macy's will have anyway. It's Macy's traffic. But. And they don't have to pay for the traffic that comes into the. To the store. And then they say, oh, Toys R Us there too. So let's bring the kids too. You know, sort of, you know, we've got birthdays coming up, we've got Christmas coming up, we've got all sorts of things. So while we're at Macy's, why don't we take the kids with us? And the other thing is that Toys R Us brings the traffic with that Macy's wouldn't ordinarily get, but it becomes available when they come. Yeah. The one thing that's going to hold the model together is a really good food court.

Dean: A really good what?

Dan: Food court.

Dean: Oh yeah, absolutely. Well that's where the, that's the model of where I see the next ghost restaurant.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Going.

Dan: Yeah. And let's say you have a. Let's say you have a ghost kitchen. Who handles the food court. Yeah.

Dean: Yes, we can get all those things. It's such a. Yeah. The world is just when you put on your free zone glasses and with the, the VCR attachment there's so much opportunity, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Dan: But you know, you won't even put on the glasses if you don't have the mindset. At least some mindsets that are moving you in that direction.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Dan: Yeah. I mean it's really. I was just noticing on. The US has now created a collaboration with Australia and UK to create a Southeast Asia fleet. A combined fleet, Australia, the UK and, and the United States. And it's a no brainer because the US has massive amounts of excess hardware.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: You know, I mean Australia doesn't have to spend any money to create. They have to spend money on training, you know, but that. Yes, but they can get submarines, they can get, you know, I mean they can get anything they want. The US US always has stuff on the shelf. And then the UK you know, is, you know, the UK was the global power before the United States, especially the global.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Fleet power. They had the greatest fleet in the world for about 200 years before the US and their cousins. These are all cousins, you know, these are not strangers. They more or less operate by the same, you know. In other words, the re. The reasons why any one of the three would fight are exactly the same. You know, it's protection of certain values and everything like that. And it's so funny because the French are. Withdrew their, withdrew their ambassador from Washington and from Canberra, Australian capital. I don't know if they've done it from London. They're just outraged that they've been excluded, you know, the sales of these weapons because they make these weapons too. And apparently Australia Had a contract with, with France for nuclear submarines and they canceled it, you know, and now they're up in the air about it. But, you know, but what are the French doing with Southeast Asia anyway? They have no presence there, you know, so it's an interesting thing, but you get collaborations everywhere. I'm just putting that out as an example. I don't want to go down the road of a geopolitical discussion. But what I'm saying is that any area of human activity, you can see that there's surplus that could match up with someone else's need for a greater capability and vice versa, that you could create a corroboration

Dean: and thinking long term like those, like I brought up that conversation about the Vista, like being able to see long term. 55. Because I remember when I started in, you know, I was 31 and it was a five year vision. Was a. I didn't even know what was going to be, you know, certain in five years in my own life. And I wonder now, do you remember any. When the vista kind of changed for you? Like, can I imagine now even at 77, you've got a even wider scope because you certainly now you have a perfect recollection of 50 years going back to being an adult still and knowing that I imagine that's still just like yesterday.

Dan: Yeah, well, at 50, I was a copywriter in a big advertising agency. So that was. Yeah, that was 70, 71 and. But by 74 I had gone out on my own. So 74 is really the some 47 years. And I went out and I started coaching one on one in 74. So that's really the start.

Dean: About 30 years old or.

Dan: Yeah, it was exactly 30 and. Yeah, yeah, exactly 30. And. And it was tough, you know, I mean, I had sort of a thought, I had sort of an idea. But what I didn't have is a marketplace that was feeling an urgent need for what I was creating. And. And so it was, it was a very tough first, you know, first 10 years. And it's, you know, it's kind of the proof of your, you know, it's kind of like your vision for yourself before you have capability requires a lot of courage.

Dean: Mm. Yeah.

Dan: And I went bankrupt twice. I went through a divorce. But I was pretty one. One is I had worked, you know, I was an employee at the ad agency and I had been an employee at the FBI and you know, when I was 18, 19 and 20 and you know, I was kind of an employee in the army, if you want to call that. I think that's in another category. And then, you know, years at college and everything else. And I knew one thing that I wasn't quite sure of my entrepreneurial career, but I was absolutely certain I did not have an employment career.

Dean: Mm.

Dan: In other words, I was very clear what I would never do again.

Dean: I know this isn't right.

Dan: Yeah, Yeah. I was very clear what I would never do again. I wasn't clear how I would enjoy that.

Dean: Oh, boy.

Dan: You know, I mean.

Dean: Yeah. Oh.

Dan: I think everybody's got an experience that hits.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Those nerves that hits those. Yeah, yeah. So that. But that's useful because then it's just a matter of getting smarter, you know, it's. You know, in other words, I was completely committed to the part of my life that wasn't working.

Dean: Oh, that's so funny.

Dan: And I was totally rejecting the. I was totally rejecting the part of my life that would have been okay.

Dean: Yes. And I wonder when did you. You probably weren't thinking 25 years then at a time, were you? Or where. Where did that. What was the. Do you remember?

Dan: No, I was thinking. I was thinking about next month's rent.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: Right.

Dean: Exactly. Yeah. Hopefully this will work out. Right.

Dan: You know, and I'm, you know, I've got skills. I'm a. I'm a writer and I've got good artistic skills. So, you know, I could do, you know, I could do cash flow projects. You know, I was okay with, you know, kind of doing other people's work in order to meet cash flow until I could get a solid foundation, a solid independent foundation under my feet. But it took 10 years. Took 10 years before that happened. And the crucial thing was meeting Babs in 82. And then we really put our heads together around 84 because she had a. Her own entrepreneurial company. She, you know, she was a very top of the line massage therapist and Nutritionist from around 78 to 84. And she would. But there's no growth in that business, you know, that if you look ahead 10 years, it's really not no different from what you're doing right now.

Dean: Right.

Dan: She got very excited about my strategy circle ideas, which was the first tool, you know, it's actually the first tool, thinking tool I ever created. And I, one afternoon, I just said, I'll take you through it. I said, let's just look at your business and I'll just take you through the, you know, the strategy circle. You know, what's your vision? What are the obstacles? What's the transformation that's needed and what action you have to take. And it was about two or three hours and we got finished and I had it all drawn out on a big, you know, pad, big art pad. I was working with, you know, markers and, you know, hand printing stuff and everything else. And so when we got finished, she said, this is going to be really big. And I said, your business is going to be really big. Nice. And not my business isn't going to be big at all, but what you're doing with this thinking process is going to be really big. And she said, I'd rather, she said, I'm going to bring what I'm doing to a close and I'm good. If you're up to it, she says, I'll join you. And there's just lots of things that you're, you know, that you're lacking. There's just lots of things that you're. From my perspective, you're not doing correctly, but you shouldn't be spending your time thinking them, thinking about that and doing it. So the really unique ability concept came in very early there and my lifestyle, my daily way of taking care of myself or not taking care of myself could use some improvement. And Babs has a good handle on that. So that's when it really started, you know, and that. And then right off the bat it started clicking. You know, people who I talked about three years before, all of a sudden around 84 started phoning, said, you know, that thinking process you have, we've been thinking about it, you know, could you come in and work with us? From 84 onwards it really, you know, it really got traction and positive cash flow and yeah, yeah, it was really good. And so that partnership would be one of the breakthroughs.

Dan: I think the combination of the strategy circle as a thinking process in partnership with Babs was a, was a, and it was a collaboration and you know, which is at the center of everything to this day. And then the big thing was having six years, basically five years of experience out in the marketplace with one on one coaching which enabled us to see how we could do it with workshop coaching. That. Workshop coaching was the. And that's 89, November of 89. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. And then other coaches, that becomes another huge breakthrough, you know, so, you know, and, and then really zeroing in on the kind of entrepreneur which we're really into today. You know, it's not every entrepreneur, it's a particular type of entrepreneur.

Dean: Yes. Were you, do you remember anything that was the eye opener to the 25 year framework for you? Because when you're the introduction of that to me.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And I remember it being a profound shift for me that I could.

Dan: I can. No, I can tell you. And it wasn't. You were already in the program before it happened.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And it had to do with a personal project that I had started in 1978. And it was, you know, that I felt that the reason why things weren't working that would be in business and also be a failed marriage was I wasn't really telling myself what I wanted. You know, I was kind of basing everything on what I needed. And I said, yeah, but that's not really going to get you. And I said, that's what got you to your present state of failure, is that you were only focusing on what you needed or thought you needed or being told by other people what you needed, but you're not really telling yourself what you really want. So I started journaling in 1978, the end of 1978, New Year's Eve. And I said, first of all, I said, nobody in the world cares whether Dan Sullivan's successful or not. So. And right now, I look like a failure. And I'm not noticing that this is a crisis in anyone else's life, that Dan Sullivan is a failure. So I'm kind of. I'm kind of free to do anything I want to do. And for the next 25 years, I'm going to keep a daily journal. And in that journal, I have to write at least one sentence. That's the requirement per day where you say, I want such and such. And so it could be a sentence, it could be a paragraph, it could be a whole page, but it's. I want. But I can't say the word because,

Dean: yeah, I just want what I want.

Dan: I just want. I want. Why do you want it? I want it. I want it because I want it. And took me about. I would. I would say probably took me about 10 years to really stop justifying wanted it and just accepting that I wanted it, wanted it because I wanted it. Really, it's very fundamental. It's a very fundamental breakthrough, you know, and it's. And what I found is that it. If you tell people that, you know, well, that's really great you're doing that. Why now? Why do you want that? And I said, oh, I just want it because I want it. And they said, no, it's in service of. No, it's not in service of anything. I just want it because I want it. And they said, well, that's kind of selfish. That's very Self centered. And I said, maybe not. And I said, but why do you care?

Dean: Right.

Dan: That's a little selfish.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: What are you up to? What are you up to? What do you want? You know, what do you want? And I found that none of them could say I want something unless they added the justification, you know, at the end. Well, the reason why I want to be successful is so I can devote myself to world peace. And I said, the first part of it is true. The second part is fiction.

Dean: That's interesting.

Dan: Yeah, you're creating a story to, to tell the person, well, I'm not doing all this work for myself, you know, I'm doing this for the sake of humanity. And I said, you got to get to the point where you're just doing it because you want it. No. And somebody talking. And I'm just talking to myself there. I'm not saying that other people have to operate this way, but I had a problem, I had to solve it. And it was because I wasn't really telling myself what I wanted, just because I wanted it, you know. And so when I met you, 97, I had been at this for 19 years and I think I was already thinking, so I don't know, the 25 year. And I said, you know, this 25 year thing is really great. You can really transform your life in 25 years. You know, I mean, you can go through a complete personal, individual, organizational transformation. Yeah, you can give yourself 25 years. And I said, and every quarter, and then you break it down into 100 quarters. And I said, you know, so yeah, you got this 25 year thing, but actually you get a hundred quarters because so 90% of your thinking and your effort can just be about the next 90 days, you know, sum up your progress. And then you get another 25 days, 20, you get another, you know, at the end of every quarter, check in with your 25 year vision, come back, set out another 90, so you get 100 cracks to transform your 25 years. And there was something satisfying about that.

Dean: I mean, that's what, that's what's fascinating. Right, But I want to have something to say about that. But you, when you were talking about wanting what you want, always with the reason. Somebody just showed me a video today at the coffee shop about the. Something about fish love was the. It was a rabbi who was saying that about somebody's grilling some fish. And they said that why are you grilling the fish? And this guy said, well, I just love fish. And the rabbi said, so you love fish. So you take a rod and you pull the fish out of its environment and you kill it and cook it so you can eat it. And that's you loving the fish. And he said, the reality is that you love yourself and you will kill the fish to get what you want, which is the fish. And that's what we call it, you love. And when we translate that, that's often in our relationships, we do that same thing. What we're calling love is we love ourselves and we're doing something to justify it or whatever, calling it the wrong thing, which is really interesting. Yeah.

Dan: But even the person who. Even the person who says that they're frying the fish because they love fish is miles ahead of the person, say, well, I'm actually. I'm preparing it now because we're inviting some people over, and these people are very important to us. And, yeah, fish sort of seems the thing that everybody, you know. And I said, could have. It could have been. It could have been. Hot dogs. It could have been. And I said. I said, you don't have to add the fiction to it. I mean, if you're.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, at least tell yourself the truth, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I mean, if you need fiction for your relationships, go ahead and make up a story, but at least for yourself, don't make up a story. You're doing it because you want it, you know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Isn't that funny? I'm doing something that. The reason I say about 25 years as a framework is I've been experimenting with a little Twilight series in my mind here, that what I'm doing is each night as I go to bed or, you know, when you're kind of thinking your way to sleep or your mind is still kind of going. I've been playing a series in my mind. I've been looking back. I've been revisiting one year starting in 1976. You're going back that love for when I was 10 kind of thing going forward and revisiting as much as I can remember about that year. And then the next night, I'll think about 1977 and 1988. And I've been doing that now I'm up to 1990 now. I've been doing it for about 12, 12 days. And it's a really interesting thing.

Dan: It's great.

Dean: Yeah. How much, like, when you sit and think about a thing, I think about how many lives I've lived in my 55 years, you know.

Dan: Well, the other thing is the memories are there, but they're not Accessible, but they're not accessible unless you have a reason for bringing them forward.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You've just given yourself a reason for bringing forward years worth of experience and not the year before, the year after, but just that year.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: Yeah. That's what the memories are there because they're connected to each other.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And the other thing is you're making them up fresh anyway and you're, you're bringing, you're bringing to the surface and taking a look at things which happened 30 years ago or 20, 25 years ago.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But you're bringing them forward only those that are really useful to you now and useful into the. Into the future.

Dean: Right. Yeah. And that's. So my intention is to go this series all the way forward to today and then imagine it out into the future. To imagine what are the, you know, next year and the year after. Like, what. What is going to. What can I imagine or see ten years from now? Like, what's really gonna change? You know?

Dan: You know, what's great about this is, let's just say when you're, you know, you've completed 25 years on this.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And here's what I can guarantee will happen. You'll have some real zingers for every year. Like, there'll be a zinger. There will be a decision, an action or outcome every year. And then you'll say, and each of these years has a fundamental lesson that without realizing it until I did this exercise, that is actually a foundation of how I'm looking at my future. Looking at my future. And I have to tell you, you get a million people who'd want to know about this, but only because we're living in Cloudlandia.

Dean: Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Dan: Other. Otherwise you're just boring the out of your neighbors in celebration.

Dean: Right. That's so funny.

Dan: If you're asking them to listen, you better be giving them free food, Dean.

Dean: Yeah, right. No, you're the only one I've told about this. I mean, that's.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Because I know you can appreciate it, but that. Yeah. So, you know, 1990, I'm up to. But, you know, 1988 was a pivotal year because that's. I mean, I remember so clearly being on Lars Ekdal's boat with my doubles partner Johan, and having a philosophical conversation about the shrinking Runway of a tennis player and how Lars went through that same thing. And the words that he came to for him were, I Wonder what the 180th ranked businessman in the world is making right now? And he decided to Switch games and get into the business game. He was sharing that as wisdom to Johan and I and that to me, that was 100% the right words at the right time. And that was in the spring, that was in the spring of 1988. And I immediately went back to Canada, arranged to get my real estate license and By November of 1988, I was a newly minted real estate agent at 21, playing, setting up to play the longest game. As you know, that was an advantage. Then I was able to have thought about myself because our contemporaries at the time, some of the tournaments I was playing in, you know, we were playing and Andre Agassi was just coming out, you know, making his kind of debut. This kid with blue hair and crushing it. That was in the mid-80s and yeah, so all these kids. So I looked at it that at 21, starting in business, I dropped out of college and got going. And that would have given, you know, a two year felt like I was a two year head start on being a business prodigy with a long Runway. That was my first introduction to thinking, you know, kind of on the big picture that there's no, I can go as fast as I can and my youth or my age is an advantage, not a disadvantage because it's only going to get more and more valuable. That was a fun revisit for my 1988.

Dan: Yeah, I mean, it's really, it's really interesting. Athletes are a good example and child stars or teenage stars in the entertainment business are a good example. And that is, they get the, they're successful before they appreciate their success. You know, that happens with athletes too. You know, that they have this high point and that, you know, I mean, if they're really good, they're, you know, they're certainly nationally known. They're, they're in some sports, they're, they're known throughout the world. And it can happen, you know, like you're 25 years old and you're world famous and you've been at the top and the problem is you look ahead and you know, there's people who live 50, 60 years longer than you are right now. And is there anything you're going to do that's as good and as exciting as what you've already done?

Dean: Right.

Dan: And I've met him. I mean, I've met, yeah, I've met, you know, I have over the last, you know, 40, 45, 47 years of coaching entrepreneurs, I probably met two dozen, you know, entrepreneurs who were top of the line, entertain, not entertainers so much but athletes, they, you know, they played in the National Football League. They, you know, they were made, they played in, on major league baseball teams and everything like that. And, and it's an advantage to them in what they're doing right now because it opens doors, you know, you know, in other words, somebody played in a World Series, you know, played, you know, a professional, one of the major league baseball teams, and that will open their door. But it doesn't really have anything to do with the occupation that they're doing right now. Okay. And people don't want to hear about what their profession is. They want to hear the stories of their previous life.

Dean: Yes. Yeah.

Dan: And it's a sad thing. It's a very sad thing. And I've watched them and, you know, not the same thing, but, but a different, totally different previous experience. I, when I joined the ad agency in Toronto, 1971, June of 1971, this was the number two agency in Canada. Never became number one, but number two was big. It was coast to co. They had offices and, you know, 10 cities and you know, and you know, it was big for Canada. And, and so you have, you know, you have your copywriters, you have your artists, you have your, you know, you have your, you know, all the different skills that are required to be a successful corporation. But there was one guy here and he was the traffic manager for all the production of the work. So other words, he had an overview of all the different projects and what the deadlines were. And his job was just to keep everybody on schedule so that the projects could be finished. And he was a Brit, he had emigrated from the UK, you know, 70s, maybe did it in the 50s. I don't know what his history was, but when you walk into his office, all his pictures were of young men with Spitfires because when he was 18, 19 years old, he had been one of the few, you know, the Winston Churchill's, the few who saved Britain from the Germans, you know, the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots. He was one of them. And you saw pictures of him. It was hard to see him because he had put on about, you know, you know, he had, he wasn't the lean, muscular warrior right then at 18 or 19. And, and the other thing is, he said, you see this? He says, There's 10 of us here. He says five of them were dead within six months after the picture was taken. You know, and he was telling all these stories and, you know, and I just got the sense, I had this real, I could sense his sadness and it was kind of sad. That nothing in this man's life was ever going to match the importance and the meaning of what had already happened to him by the time he was 20 years old. Right.

Dean: Yeah. That's wild, right?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: Kind of like think about those being like a one hit wonder.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Music.

Dan: I was watching YouTube last night. One one hit wonder.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: I will survive.

Dean: I will survive. Okay.

Dan: Gloria Gaynor, it was number one. She was number one. I Will Survive went right to the top of the hit charts. And I mean, if you're going to have a one, if you're a one hit wonder.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Make sure it's number. Make sure it's not the number 10 hit. Make sure it's number one. Number one.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Because 35 years later, bringing on Gloria Gaynor and she's singing I Will Survive and the whole audience goes crazy and. And my Kathy Davis. Kathy, who's my great internal partner on producing workshop materials.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: She's got it. She's got it as her cell phone answer, you know that somebody calls her. It's Warrior Gaynor.

Dean: I just saw the thing. What made me think of that was it's Rick Springfield's birthday was recently. He's 72 years old. 72 years old. And his Jesse's Girl song, you know, you think about. He had a string of three or four hits in that four year period there from 1980 to 1984. But you know, the YouTube thing was showing him at 72 out playing Jesse's Girl. You know, he's lived his whole life just dining out on Jesse's. Have you heard that in the, that saying in the South, Dining out. Like if you've got a good. You're a good. You got good stories. You could dine out. I mean, people would want to take you out for dinner too. Dining out on that. On his. Jesse's.

Dan: Well, and it's. And yeah, I mean, you know, fame has its own value, you know, I mean, that's.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. And I think there's a skill that goes along with it, you know, like nobody, not everybody has the skill of being. Being able to be famous.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: But my feeling is that most of the people who have it don't know what it is.

Dean: Right. Yeah. That was, I mean, the best thing ever, though. There was a. There's actually a show on VH1 called One Hit Wonders and it's kind of like, where are they now? And it was some. I don't know who it was because I wish I could credit them with saying it, but they asked them, you Know, how does it feel like having just had the one hit, you know, like implying that, that he must feel like a letdown. You know, you didn't really go on to big success. And they totally reframed it and said, listen, you know, in the big picture of music success, One hit wonder is pretty high up there. And we've been able to. All we ever wanted to do was not have jobs and play music. And I was able to do that my whole life because of that one hit. So I'm pretty happy about it. I don't think about it as a success. Everybody knows.

Dan: You know something, you started this podcast, though, talking about the. Your different relationship with time now in the 1990s. And my sense is that you can strive for the one hit wonder or you can say, I'm going to use the next 25 years with 100 quarters just to transform my life into everything I wanted. And that doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with having a number one hit.

Dean: Yeah, that's true.

Dan: I mean, I find one hit wonders a bit like hoping that the lottery winner today is your number. You know, it's hoping that you have enormous luck today. And I said, if you have to, I think, you know, luck is luck, you know, and, you know, and I, I'm not knocking it. I don't want to have bad luck.

Dean: Right, right.

Dan: It's not my, it's the, not, not. The main thing I'm trying to master in life is luck. I'm trying to master real uniquely valuable skill that other people will pay for.

Dean: But even luck requires action. And that's the interesting thing about it. Right. It's that you're putting yourself in a situation where luck is going to pay off. Luck can only pay off if you.

Dan: Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, if you want to score a goal, you have to take to the shot, you know.

Dean: That's right. Yeah.

Dan: I mean, the great Canadian philosopher Wayne Gretzky said that he missed all the shots that he didn't take.

Dean: Yeah, but you imagine, Dan, if you could get in the hot tub time machine and go back and actually revisit each of those years for that timeframe, you know, knowing either that you were on the right track with certain things, that you made the right, you know, choice, or you being able to confidently go all in on the choice that maybe you delayed for period of time.

Dan: Yep, yep. August 13, 1982, 7:00'.

Dean: Clock. That's.

Dan: That's the moment I met Babs. Oh, wow.

Dean: There it is.

Dan: Yeah, there's before that. All my years before that. Yeah, there's all my years after that.

Dean: Wow. That's something. That's awesome.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Free zone collaboration.

Dan: Yep, Yep, yep. And, yeah, great. Great. I mean, great thing. But I love what you're doing, and I think, you know, it'll be interesting to kind of create some categories of the. The big gains. The big gains from each of each of the years. You know, I. I think you'll have a major piece of intellectual capital when you finish all 25 years.

Dean: Yeah. Well, we're at 1990 now, so by next week, Dan will be right up to when we met. Yep. There we go.

Dan: Yeah, I'll have you. When you come to the. If you come to the workshop next Thursday, I'll have you just chat about it.

Dean: Yeah, okay, I will.

Dan: Yeah. And here's the neat thing about. About what you're doing. Who's to argue with you?

Dean: Right? Exactly. And I mean, that's the thing is I'm probably arguing. You know, we're. I don't know how reliable our memories are. I think it's been proven that we reshape our memories.

Dan: You know, Dean, I'm going to give you a different perspective. The only question is, how creative is your memory?

Dean: Right.

Dan: There you go.

Dean: Perfect. How creative is your memory?

Dan: Yeah. Remember, always remember, entertainment trumps accuracy.

Dean: That's right. If you're going to dine out on a memory

Dan: and who's to prove you're wrong? It's like. Yeah, that's right. At the opportunity where Joe Polish introduced me to. What's his name?

Dean: Richard Branson?

Dan: No, Cooper. The singer, the entertainer. Alex Cooper. And his wife and I, we got into the fact that he has a late night. Serious. Serious. You know, the satellite network, It's Nighttime with Alice Cooper, where he tells the history of rock and roll. 50s, 60s. And anyway. And I listened to it a couple nights. He's terrific. I mean, he's just got a terrific style, and he's a great storyteller and everything else. And he's. I asked him why he does it, and he says, well, first of all, it's therapeutic. He says, you know, going back, he's doing what you're doing right now. You know, he was doing. And he said, the other thing is, it's really neat. He says, I can say anything I want because all the other witnesses are dead.

Dean: He's the keeper of the memories. That's right. Yeah.

Dan: He says, anything I say about it, it's like Churchill, Winston Churchill at the end of the Second World War. They said, how do you think history will treat you? He says, I think history is going to treat me really well. And the reason is because I'm going to be the one that writes the history.

Dean: That's great. I love it. That is so fun.

Dan: You're writing your history. You're writing your history, Dean.

Dean: I am?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I am indeed. Okay.