Predicting The Digital Future

Dean: Here we are. Welcome to Cloudlandia.

Dan: Yes. And I thought I'd give you the honor of being first on this morning.

Dean: I love that.

Dan: Not to set up sort of a syndrome in your mind that you're always a little bit late. I don't want to set that up.

Dean: You want me to have the joy of being.

Dan: I want to have you.

Dean: The joy that you're never going to give me up. You're never going to let me down, never gonna turn around. Yeah.

Dan: No, I love it. Yeah. And there's a lot of wisdom. More and more as I listen to that music. There's. Yes, you can squeeze. You can continually squeeze a lot of wisdom out of that. Useful wisdom. Not just nice to think about wisdom, but actually, let's trans. Let's translate this into super performance kind of music. Yes. Yeah. It was so funny. It's so funny. I won't say who it is, but there was a very prominent business person in Canada that I had a relationship with, talking, you know, sort of a chatting relationship over a number of years. And what I noticed is that I was always early and he was always late. Okay. For the first three meetings, I. I would be there five minutes early and he would be there five minutes late. And so the third occasion, he said, are you always early? And I said, yes, I am. Are you always late? And he said, you're the first person who makes me conscious that I am. You know, and he said, because, you know, I kind of hang out with a bunch of people and, you know, we're kind of. We're kind of around the time we agreed on. But you're always before the time we agreed on.

Dean: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: Why do you do. And why do you do that? And I said, well, I find it. It relaxes me. And that five minutes, you're absolutely right.

Dean: Like, when you think about that, even five minutes. Five. Five. Even just five minutes is a. Is a big difference. And even in our world, you and I joke about the, you know, who's on. We're always at the top of the hour we're in, but it's become this back and forth thing of being two minutes ahead or something. Never five in this context, but in a physical environment, it's a. It's a big thing. Like you're saying that the hour, having an extra hour at the buffer at the airport when you're going to the airport is a luxurious experience. It feels so much more. It's a completely different experience than having even 10 minutes too little.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And it's kind of funny. I have, you know, I have. I don't have a super watch. I have a watch that I. Which is actually just the watch component of my heart rate monitors made by Polar, who. I don't even know if they're still in the, you know, still in the business anymore, you know.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Because all the new watches, like the Apple watch and everything else, have incorporated what they used to do. And. But anyway, I have it and I, you know, and I have a merchant here in the city of Toronto that when my batteries run out on my Polar watches, I have about five of them with the bands, you know, you have a chest that goes across. And I just period, you know. You know, every three months or so, one of my team members, that coach who runs operations, you know, they're the ones who order things and they're dealing with outside businesses. So I just asked him if he could, you know, every quarter, you know, drop a couple of these off and have them come back, put them new batteries in and come back. But I always keep my watch three minutes early, you know, and. And I. It does the world of good for me having my watch three minutes early, because if I'm on time, and if I'm on time, according to my watch, I'm early, you know, and so what I try to do is just be, you know, when I start a workshop, we have a time with a team, which is a half hour before the workshop starts when we're going to meet and talk about the workshop. And I always make sure that I'm there on time according to my watch, which means that I'm three minutes early for the meeting. And, you know, over in a day, always being, you know, a couple more minutes early for things takes a lot of the stress out, but it sort of becomes cumulative over the course of a year. I just don't, you know, I've just removed one of the big stressors that everybody talks about in their life.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And what's in. What's interesting is that it's a mainland. You know, I'm in the mainland and I'm three minutes early for a Cloudlandia event.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I mean, I consider Zoom to be Cloudlandia. And I do, too.

Dean: What we're doing. Yeah, I was this morning. So I'm out in my courtyard right now. This is absolutely perfectly exactly room temperature, 72, slight breeze, blue skies. It couldn't be better. Quiet Sunday, nothing going on outside. So I love this. But the thing that I've been contemplating this morning over coffee and Luba and I Were having a nice conversation about it just before I dialed in here that I've been thinking about 24 hours. I've been thinking about a period a day in the life. And I was thinking back the difference between 1992 and 2022 in the days and projecting what could possibly be in 2052, what's likely because that 2052 is 30 years from now, just like 1992 is 30 years ago. So I started out thinking about. So the first, you know, seven and a half hours of the. This 24 hours was sleeping. And that was true in 1992. And very little has changed about that here in 2022. I mean, dead technology is the, you know, the same. You've certainly embraced the CPAP technology. You know, the things that. There's some little things that we can do to optimize sleep, but the need for sleep is still, we still dedicate eight hours day or so to that sleep. And I don't anticipate that's going to change in 2052, but maybe it will. I'm open to all the possibilities, but I just kind of.

Dan: Yeah, where are we going with that?

Dean: Right.

Dan: It's really interesting because I can remember maybe 20, 25 years ago there was a bit of a fad in the business world where, you know, you should be able to get, get along with less sleep. In other words, there was this big movement. Why are we wasting, you know, all these hours in a day on sleeping? And, and their goal was if you're sleeping eight hours, get it down to four hours, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And you know, and there were people who dedicated to the themselves to this like they dedicate themselves to running a marathon, you know, and, and, but I heard, I haven't heard any, haven't had any outstanding success stories of people being successful at that. You know, I've heard success stories of people running marathons and running married many marathons, but I haven't heard anybody being really successful with the reduced sleep one. And there was a really terrific speaker, Abundance 360 last year. He was asleep, you know, he was a sleep expert. And he said, look, he said, you know, you know, we have evidence it's been this way for tens of thousands of years that people have, you know, basically put in eight hours of sleep, you know. Yeah. And, and, or thereabouts. And he said, you know, if we didn't need it, you'd think we would have found a shortcut.

Dean: Right?

Dan: Yeah, exactly.

Dean: I think that's. So you look at these things that without. I was really kind of looking at the con, the constructs of things. Right. Like so 1992, we had 24 hours in a day and 20, 22, we still have 24 hours in a day and 8 of it is we're setting aside for sleep. Right. We've had, there's technologies that help us maximize and improve. I mean the beds are, you know, better. Better. The, certainly the technology like CPAPs have advanced, I imagine. I don't know how old that technology is, but I imagine that the CPAP of today is better than.

Dan: That's terrific. I mean, I mean the one I started with 10 years ago, they improved it about for me. I mean I took advantage of the improvement about two years ago and it's, it was a real jump. I mean it was real jump. It was a better machine. And the, they have lots of information packed into the machine. They have all sorts of scorekeeping, you know, measuring and I've started to use that. And it's one of my goals that there's a measurement you get every morning after you've done your sleep of what you got for the last eight hours, you know, for your previous night, this is how many hours. And then for the last REM, seven nights. Seven nights. And then the last 30 days they give me. And one of my goals is that it's always above 8. So that my measurement for last night was above 8. The average for the last seven days was above 8 and the average for the last 30 days. And that's a really important and good score for me to strive for. And, and you know, if I get like six or seven for some reason, either social reason or travel reason, then I really make it a big deal to actually get a nine or a ten hour sleep. So that my app, my average for the last seven days stays above eight. You're right.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: You know, score keeping. Yeah, I'm not following the REM thing yet and I probably will, I probably will as we get into our lifetime extender series. You know, I think it'll, I think that'll come up and I'll take advantage of that. I think I'm going to get myself probably during the next year I'll get myself an Apple watch because apparently they're, they're pretty good. I just saw an article in Investors Business Daily talking about the technology of health and fitness and Apple was mentioned very prominently as a lead technological organization and providing people with all sorts of measurements. And then on the App Store they have all sorts of apps that you can use. So it's a big deal. It's a big deal. You know, it's making people more conscious. It makes people more conscious.

Dean: Yeah. So when I continued on my day here, just reflecting on.

Dan: You're trying to get in the story. If I periodically distract you.

Dean: No, this is my point. This will be. If we're okay with this could be the through line of the. The course of the discussion, but meant to go on to. To branches off like this, like. That's an important part that I think Leap is going to be equally important, you know, going forward.

Dan: Cloudlandia as it is for the mainland. Actually, I think more so. Actually, I think more so.

Dean: Yeah. That's. Why would you say that even. That's an interesting.

Dan: Well, I'll just go on my experience that I've been far more involved with Cloudlandia since the lockdowns forced us to go from in person to Zoom. And I've just noticed that I've been much more motivated and incentives incentivized to get my good sleep in since I've been on a steady Zoom workshop schedule than I had ever been before with a in person schedule workshop. There's something about the Zoom that puts more of a premium on getting good sleep.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Why is that?

Dean: I don't know. I don't know.

Dan: I think your brain. I think you're using your brain more.

Dean: I think that's probably your. Yeah, because it's definitely more. You're definitely at the tippy top of the intellectual level of your brain.

Dan: Well, and I also think focused attention. I know. I noticed my focus during Zoom workshops is way more constant throughout the day than it ever was when I was doing the in person workshops.

Dean: That's interesting. You can't. Yeah. Because you've got. You get that definite sense of all eyes on you when you're at this thing that they're. You're looking at a screen with, you know, 50 other eyeballs looking at you and two more screens of people behind that that, you know, you could see 50 eyeballs there, but you know, there's 150 eyeballs that are looking at you. Yeah.

Dan: Well, not only that, but. Okay, that was good for the first hour, Dan. Now what do you got for us next hour?

Dean: Ah, right. But I looked at the thing, you know, the, the physical place. Like, so my. I'm in my courtyard, as I mentioned, and this, you know, I look at this, I could, in 2052, I could be here in this courtyard. This courtyard will be here. This will be the, you know, it's. You Know, robust enough house to still be in this neighborhood, will still be here in, in 30 years.

Dan: More Palm trees. Probably a lot more palm trees.

Dean: Yeah, we've got these beautiful. Like my neighborhood is these.

Dan: What other kind of trees besides palm do you have there? What's that?

Dean: My neighborhood specifically has hundred to 150 year old oak trees. Beautiful, big. Like they've been here before we were here and they're going to be.

Dan: So are these. There's a variety of oak tree in the south that's called a pin oak. Is this a pin oak or is it.

Dean: What kind of live oak or what we're.

Dan: That's the name. Live oak. Yeah, it's called a live oak. Yeah.

Dean: And they're.

Dan: We have these marvelous. You know, our place in Toronto, we have seven. I think these are called White Oaks. These are white oaks and on average they're about a hundred and ten feet tall. Yeah, they're 110ft tall and on average they're about 130 years old.

Dean: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: So, yeah, they're magnificent.

Dean: That's kind of. It's very similar. So there's 50 homes in here and yeah, they're.

Dan: So they did a good job when they were putting the development in to save the trees.

Dean: Well, that's what I mean. There's only 50 homes and they're spread out throughout these and it's like part. So you would, you know what the tall, you know, greenery is and so

Dan: that the fact that these are seasonal trees. Are they seasonal?

Dean: No, they're.

Dan: They stay, they stay green all year round then.

Dean: But they're dormant in terms of over the winter. They're not, they don't bloom or anything like that, but they don't shed their leaves, you know. Yeah, but they get a little brown. Not, not the bright, vibrant green kind of thing. But. Well, but to say that we'll be sitting here, I could physically be outside sitting here. That's not going to change in 2032. This is kind of where my thought process was to go. What's fundamentally changing? Like, as soon as we entered, you and I into this conversation now, today, you're the first person I've had contact with in the outside world. And the fact that we're doing something that wasn't possible in 1992 would have been very unlikely, even in our relationship would be very unlikely in 1992 to have close collaborative relationship with.

Dan: What would we have talked about? I mean, what would we have talked about? You know, like, you know, it's like. Yeah, it's like Thoreau, you know, the mid. You know, 1800 sort of philosopher. Thoreau lived in Massachusetts. There's Walden Pond, very famous pond. And he had sort of a rustic home and Walden Pond. And he was kind of a recluse and. Yeah, kind of. I think, probably a loner and kind of an unpleasant person. But he wrote some books that became very popular, and everybody wanted to know him, and he didn't want to know them. And, you know, and he wrote these books. But it was the time that the Samuel Morse created the Telegraph, and there was a headline in the Boston newspaper, perhaps the Globe, that said, now possible for Massachusetts to talk to Texas. That was the headline. And Thoreau said, well, it's. It's a. That's a very interesting fact that Massachusetts can now talk to Texas. But do they. Does Massachusetts have anything to talk about to Texas? You know, and, you know, and it's a very interesting. I mean, I think he was trying to be a smartass with the comment, but it's a valid question about communication. It's about communication technology. The fact that you have the ability to connect with someone doesn't necessarily mean that you have actually something to communicate to that person that you're connecting with. But we do.

Dean: Absolutely. And that's what struck me was I was thinking about that. The category that you've chosen, like your. You've hitched your wagon to thinking about your thinking, and that goes all the way back to, you know, Seneca thinking, you know, thinking about. They're thinking. It's, you know, 35 B.C. you and I, I would imagine, at the agora, sitting, having great conversations over,

Dan: you know, perfect drink. Well, you know, it's really interesting that you should choose Seneca, because I think that Seneca would have been excited to see the two of us.

Dean: Mm.

Dan: But I don't think Plato or Aristotle would have. Okay, so Seneca. Seneca is, you know, he's 300 years later than he's. First of all, he's a Roman, and the other two were Greeks. But, you know, basically, when it came to Plato, I don't think he was happy with anyone unless he was talking at them.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And I think Aristotle was the same. He was a top. He was somebody who talked at a lot of people, and a lot of people sat there and listened and said, oh, this is amazing. This is profound. He's going to be famous, you know, a couple thousand years from now and everything like that. But I think Seneca was a conversationalist. He just liked having a good talk.

Dean: Yes. That was the thing. The letters that whole. That's what I think is like when you read the letters from a Stoic, that's been my interest or my introduction to Seneca years ago is you read. First of all, I was fascinated that we're talking 35 bc we're talking. He's having conversations about, you know, thinking about your thinking. Yeah, it's. I mean it's crazy to think that this was like the level of intellectual thought that was going on in, in that time frame. So I look now and I think I'm certain that you And I in 2030 or 2052 is. Are still. There's not going to be any shortage of thinking about your thinking available to us. You know, it's really. That's.

Dan: Well, one thing. If you and I are talking in 2052, I've been successful at reaching 108 in age wise. Yes, we'll have that to talk about. I mean, I'll fill your ear with what it's like to be over 100, you know. You know, right, exactly. Dean, you're a sub 100 person here and you got something to look forward to here.

Dean: Yes. I love that you're my 22 year ghost of Christmas future. That's really what it is.

Dan: Well, you know, I was just reading an article. Have you come across the name Daniel Kahneman?

Dean: I have, yes.

Dan: Yeah. So thinking fast, thinking slow. And I think he's one Nobel Prize. I think he's a Nobel prize winner and he. And a partner and. But he was saying if you want to think, better bounce your thoughts up off other people's thinking, you know, and, and I said, well, that's what I look like is. I said, yeah, I said it. I said, well yeah, if you can find them, you know.

Dean: Right, right.

Dan: You know, but I, but I said, you have to. My feeling is in order to be interesting to someone else, why don't you start by bouncing your actually think about your own thinking first so that you clean your own thinking up first a little bit, make it tidy, presentable, and then bounce your thinking off someone else's thinking.

Dean: Yes. Yeah, that's good.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: So that was, you know, I thought about if you and I were having this conversation. I think that, you know, we would certainly. All the things we talk about right now are this. The, you know, they're all digitally. We're talking about a digital world right now. But in 1992 it was. We were firmly at the very end of the. A analog world and just moving into a digital world which we had no idea what was going to how that was going to impact things. But we would have had different conversations because it's still. You think about the early approach, you know, technologies of NASCAR better.

Dan: Well, just to talk about the technology we had available to us, you know, you'd be talking about Xerox machines. You, you might be talking about. Oh, yeah, you know, what were the early machines where you could send something. You could send a fax machine. We'd be talking about fax machines long distance. We've been put into, you know, we just had a time warp.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: You know, here's the thing about the Codlandia. Everybody thinks it's a smooth experience. There may be all types of swamps and quicksand and traps and, you know, that we don't know about.

Dean: Face junk. Space junk.

Dan: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, imagine the Chinese worried about Elon Musk having one of his satellites destroy their space station. You know, you know, these are Cloudlandia problems. These are not normal world problems.

Dean: You just think about our. In 1992, this conversation right now that we're. We. I didn't even dial a thing. I just literally said, call Uber conference. And we. I'm on here and you're there. And then we just talk and we hang up and everything falls into place. That our team picks it up from there and gets it out to the world that anybody can listen to right now. Now in 1992, Dan, first of all, even connecting like this would have been. That's all basically free. I mean, it would have first of all been. You're talking a costly international first or long distance call. That would have been the first thing.

Dan: Yeah, we're probably talking a couple hundred dollars anyway.

Dean: And then how in the world would we have recorded it? That would have been impossible. It would have the resources that would have required for us. We would have to maybe go to a studio. I'd be in a studio and you'd be in a studio or something like that to be able to record that. And then.

Dan: So we'd pay. So we'd be paying that. We'd be paying for the studio. Studio people. And they'd probably be trying to tell us what to do.

Dean: Absolutely. And then how would we distribute it to people? How. Anybody who wanted to listen to it would have to have a physical copy of it somehow.

Dan: Yeah. And they would be. Well, in that. I'm just trying to think in 92, they. They certainly would have been cassette tapes. Cassette tapes, yes.

Dean: Yep.

Dan: I think.

Dean: I think that the very beginning of cd.

Dan: I don't think so. I don't think so. Using. I was still using cassette tapes as the main. I put out albums of things in 1995, you know, with cassette tapes, and wasn't considered odd or anything.

Dean: Well, that was the first thing. The. For my first exposure to you. I told you. When I went to. My friend Alan Kern was at the workshop and I bought a How the Best Get Better. That was the. My first introduction. And I gave that to Jerry Ballinger and Jerry Hunnefeld to do. And that's where we got Joe involved.

Dan: That's how Joe Polish got involved in the.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, I mean, everything about it is just 10 times easier and cheaper. You know, it's 10 times faster, 10 times easier, 10 times cheaper and 10 times more productive, you know, so.

Dean: And I wonder now. So this was my next thought, was that you're in your. You know, you're in it. You got your great environment. I'm in my courtyard in 20, you know, 52. I could see. I mean, it doesn't feel.

Dan: I can't see why it would be someplace else. Thirty years.

Dean: Exactly. That's exactly. So here we are. I'm. I feel the same way. And

Dan: you're creating a formula. Dean, I don't know if you know this, but you're creating a formula that the more that you take advantage of Cloudland. Cloudlandia, the more you can keep the mainland the same.

Dean: I wonder. It's. It could be right. Like, that's. I'm thinking about it as a. I was thinking about it as a tool of. Almost like.

Dan: I mean, that's, like. That's why. I don't know. You know, I think this is kind of like one of Newton's laws of thermo thermodynamics, actually. You know. You know, that what I notice. And I will tell you this, I've noticed it over the last two years. And people said, you know, has it been rough for you? And I said, actually, no, it's been probably one of the more comfortable two years that I can. You know, I've gotten full night sleep every night, eating better. I'm exercising every day. You know. No, you know, I gotta believe it's one of the two most regular and enjoyable two years of my life.

Dean: Yeah, it's pretty good, right?

Dan: Oh, it's fantastic. As a matter of fact, we were scheduled, you know, we had all of our workshops scheduled for January, and we were going to be live workshops in Toronto, live workshops in Chicago, and then you know, at the end of December. And we said, you know, half the people have just phoned and canceled, you know, after people on. And we said, ah, let's just cancel them. And, you know, I said, oh, things just got simple again.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You know, and then I was on a podcast call with Peter Diamantes on Friday and he had to cancel Abundance360 for the end of January, first week of January, February, and he's moved it to April. And I, he came on and I said, peter, life just got simple again. He said, oh, you're telling me, you're telling me that this just got simple? He says, this is unbelievable how simple it just got. And I said, you know, there's a lesson in this. There's a lesson in this, Peter.

Dean: Yeah, there's something. I mean, that's really interesting. You know, I had, I was all set. I thought this year was going to be like, back to regular, you know, live events and celebrations.

Dan: I thought it was going to, I thought it was going to be bad, like when Trump was president.

Dean: Right. And that hasn't turned out to be that.

Dan: No, it hasn't turned out. It hasn't turned out that way. You know,

Dean: so it's, it's a really interesting, it's a really interesting thing. But I look at that now. So I think about 2052, you and I, the best case scenario thing is we're sitting in our happy place with a perfect, most of the time connection to each other that's automatically being recorded. And, you know, we're having great communication. And I think, like, there's a big amount of years between 2022 and 2052. And I start to think that where this may be the place where the metaverse is really going to take off, that. And I had a breakthrough thought this morning that as I was thinking that I could imagine, Dan, like, have you ever been on Google Earth, the app where you can see, like you can zoom into an area and get down and do the street, for instance?

Dan: Yeah, yeah.

Dean: So I was in Yorkville a couple of months ago on Google Earth, and it's so super high resolution now that it's just like immersive, right? Immersively being. And I was wondering as I was thinking that, like, it's, I think, very possible that you and I would be able to create a metaverse experience of us immersively sitting in jocks at Table 10, where it is indistinguishable from being together in person there, aside from being able to maybe even that would be,

Dan: well, I mean, yeah. I mean, right now, if we were doing it on Zoom, you would be on your Torchard courtyard, and I'd be in my basement and you'd see where I was. I mean, that's all right. You know, we just decided, you know, that this is.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: That this is easier. But, yeah, unfortunately, Jacques is gone.

Dean: I know.

Dan: Yeah, you're not. Not only that, but La select is gone.

Dean: Oh, my goodness, Dan.

Dan: Not only that, but one at the Hazleton has gone.

Dean: Yeah, they do. So the whole thing, it's shut down. Wow.

Dan: Well, the Hazleton hasn't shut down. They've been bought.

Dean: No, no, I mean, the restaurant. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: Well, I had two, you know, team dinners there just before. Just before Christmas, and it was. And was. You know, I won't say it was packed, but, you know, it wasn't noticeably. And. Yeah, and I went in. I had. During the Christmas to New Year's Week, there's a longtime conversational partner, David Serber, that I usually meet. And I called him up and, you know, I. Or I emailed him. I said, hey, open for lunch at 1. And he phoned me back and said, you know, he said, I have a thing I can't do. So I went. I said, well, I'll just have lunch at 1. And I went there, and it was gone. It was just gone. Yeah. So, you know, so what I'm doing now with my clients and team and people in. In Toronto, and I'm saying, what's your favorite restaurant that's still open? And so I'm trying out a whole bunch of new restaurants as a result of this. Oh, there you go. Yeah. What they take away from me triggers me to find new places.

Dean: Right.

Dan: So anyway, so that's a cloud land. That's a mainland change. There's been many mainland changes.

Dean: Yeah. And I think, though, that, you know, I do think that these immersive things are going to be more. I think that's a certainty, like, as I think about it, like, just reflectively thinking about what is going to happen 30 years from now. And I believe that there is momentum and it's. People are working on this.

Dan: Here's, you know, here's the thing about that. And, you know, I was thinking about the metaverse, and, you know, and one of the things about the metaverse is I don't want to be anywhere that Mark Zuckerberg is. You know, that's right off the bat, right off the ground. So, I mean, if he's the attraction to go in there, count me out. But the thing is that the Navy SEALs are already training and have been training for the last 15 years in the metaverse. And the Air Force pilots, totally trained in the Metaverse, like the Air Force pilots. Now, whatever their eyes do, the plane does, they have this training now where they can see everything. The. They have. They have goggles, you know, they have their normal goggles that pilots have already, but in their goggles, it's a complete set of dials and controls and everything. And if they look at something that triggers. So they have to be very super skillful. Well, that's the metaverse. You know, they're operating in the metaverse. Yeah. And, you know, when the Navy SEALs have a project, they have a complete 3D, you know, virtual reality reproduction of the place that they're going to raid, you know, that they're, you know, and they have that already. And they wear goggles. Yeah, they don't have to wear the Oculus stuck goggles. Goggles. They just have goggles that they wear and they can, you know, they see the place and they, you know, they create their teamwork, you know, of going in this door and watching out for that door and everything like that. And they put the enemies in there. They can recreate the enemies come in. So they're. They've already had about five battles before they ever go into the operation where the, you know, they have super smart, sneaky enemies that try to, you know, fool them and everything. And they've trained on being fooled in the. In a world which is, you know, it's just in a big room and, you know, it's just in a big room, but they're seeing, you know, the actual scene of the battle that they're going into, and there's enemies, and then they get graded afterwards how they responded to the enemies and everything. Well, it's all being done in the metaverse.

Dean: Yeah. That's amazing.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, that's for, you know, that's for real work. And my feeling is that the metaverse is going to be developed by real work, not by entertainment.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And what I mean, real world, I

Dean: think that's the other way around.

Dan: I mean, it's almost like gaming is real work. You know. What I mean is there's competition, there's money to be made, there's skill to be developed, and it's not just like, hey, you can go to the Grand Canyon. Well, I don't get points for going to the Grand Canyon. There's no scoreboard for me visiting the Grand Canyon. So that's off my list.

Dean: But it's really interesting now that I think we're in a situation where as the metaverse, as Cloudlandia develops into what is a model of the mainland, taking all the best parts of the mainland that there will be, that it will evolve to be, that there are the best parts of Cloudlandia that are, you know, that you're starting to see. You're catching wind now of people buying for big dollars, real physical locations in the. In the metaverse. Right. Yeah. In the cloud. That. You know, I thought about it. It makes total sense when you think about what happened with Fortnite, where they had 10 million people at a marshmallow concert. And, you know, and imagine if everybody. Because they went to the stadium or went to the, you know, where they were doing the amphitheater or whatever in Fortnite, everybody was there. Ten million people, all having the same experience. Imagine if you could have a T shirt stand right there that you have. That you've got access to where those people are. No wonder Louis Vuitton and all these big brands are buying physical outposts in the most popular destinations. Inlandia. Yeah, I mean, it's really. Yeah, I would.

Dan: I mean, I have a early experience of that with the. Our first two books, you know, because our first two books, the who, Not How. Thank you. And the Gap and the Gain are, you know, they're kind of floating in between Amazon book number 2000 and the Amazon book 3000.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: Which doesn't seem, you know, when you first hear the numbers, it doesn't sound like a too big thing. And I was talking to Ben about Ben Hardy about this.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And he said, yeah, but get a sense of perspective about this. Your book, 2000 against 10 million books that Amazon has available.

Dean: So. Right.

Dan: So in other words, that 10 million books are available on Amazon and you're in the top 2000. He said that's like your number one. He says you're 2000. He says that means that books are selling every day.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Your book is selling every day. So I have the sense, you know, this day, that yesterday, today, tomorrow, probably it works out to about 500 books a week that, you know, every 70 books sold today, 70 books sold tomorrow, 70 books sold yesterday. You know, and probably three or four people are going to read those books and sign up for a strategic coach, and I don't have to. And it's like a T shirt stand. Marshmallow. Marshmallow, Exactly. So that's sort of a metaverse sort of experience. It's an early Experience.

Dean: Yeah. God bless America.

Dan: God bless America.

Dean: Exactly. Wonder now, that's just kind of the thing where I don't know whether I was having this conversation with you.

Dan: Well, that's a good question. That's a good question. I mean, that's a good comment that you made. God bless America. I got a feeling the Germans aren't doing this.

Dean: Right? Well, I got my.

Dan: I got. I got a feeling that none of the Europeans are doing this. I. I don't know. I mean, it may surprise me. I mean, someone like Ilco. Ilko in Amsterdam, I can see Ilco doing it, but, you know, I can think of individual. I can think of individual Europeans doing it, but I can't see Europeans as a, you know, kind of an excited army of people that. Doing it. You know, it's kind of an American. It's kind of an American sort of thing.

Dean: That's interesting. Yeah. Speak of Ilco. I talked to him all the time, but that's.

Dan: I got. But you know what? Ilko, when I did my American scorecard, he came out very high and he said, oh, this kind of explains the whole bunch of things that I. Ever since I've been born, I feel like a duck out of the water in Holland. He said, I'm actually an American. I said, yeah, Americans can be born. Americans can be born anywhere.

Dean: That's funny. I got my happy American book. I forget what it's titled. American Happiness. Yes. I got that to look at today, the other day.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah. I think.

Dan: I think it's a sleeper book. It's one of those books that's kind of. Kind of going to grow. Because first of all, things are, you know, things are very, you know, things are very contentious now, and America is going through a contentious period right now, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, it's like somebody disturbed the beehive, you know, and there's a swarm going on right now, you know, but. Yeah, but I think that there's some solid things that go on regardless of circumstances. I think there's some DNA, American DNA, that just keeps going forward. That's what I've tried to identify in the book. But, you know, the interest. The interesting thing is that I think that you and I are similar, that we like a lot of novelty, but we also like a lot of stuff to be regular. You know, I love that.

Dean: I love a good firm foundation with novelty. Yeah, I'll describe that. That's. That is. We said that's Joe Polish and I relationship is the. If we think about the I'm like the steam, you know, the, the cruise ship going steadily in one direction kind of thing. And Joe's in the back doing, you know, doing wakeboard tricks and going off on the angles. But it all comes back. It's all guarded by the through line of the. The. The cruise ship going in one.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Steady direction, you know.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yep. And then, you know, Fort Lauderdale to, you know, to, you know, Fort Lauderdale and always follows this route, you know.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: And seven days from now, we'll be back in Fort Lauderdale and who knows what's happened along the way.

Dean: That's right. That's right.

Dan: Yeah. And I think, you know, and I think you need something that's constant so that things can be new and spontaneous. I think you need a solid base in order to have a lot of experimentation and, you know, creativity and spontaneous. Yeah, yeah. I think. I really believe. And, And I, you know, my feeling is that, you know, we're finding out a lot during this period about what people want constant in their lives and what they're willing to have open to, you know, new things, new possibilities and everything like that. Yeah, yeah.

Dean: That's why it's so good. I think this whole fun exercise, like, we've just scratched the surface of the depth of the things because, you know, I was thinking about food, you know, like what. Right now I have access to every restaurant within any distance of here. Could have food. I can get any meal delivered door in. In 30 minutes. And, you know, you think about where that. What's your. I know you. You would take food. You had the caterer when you were doing the live workshops.

Dan: How.

Dean: What's your food situation now?

Dan: Well, it's the same. Our caterer has just continued on with his delivery to us personally throughout the session, and we've gotten him some new personal customers. I mean, he's had a, you know, it's been a huff. It's been a tough time for him because.

Dean: Right.

Dan: I mean, we were. We were half his income, you know, of everything he did. Because we were just, you know, you know, we. On a yearly basis before. Before the lockdown, we served 25,000 meals a year. You know, I mean, it's pretty good operation. And. And he would be half of it. He would be half of it. And then we'd have some in other places, and he would do it, and he does great job and, you know, he's very open to suggestions and, you know, change ups and. But he's continued on all of. All of our food for the Last two years at the house has come through with. With Christopher Wood and. Yeah. So anyway. But I think that a time like now really sorts things out between that which you want to be predictable and that which you want to be surprising.

Dean: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I think you want that. That's some interesting. Yeah. I'm all, yeah. I can't wait to see what old Joe's been up to on his sabbatical. You know, I know they've made a

Dan: lot, you know, joke. When I met Joe, couldn't have done a half hour sabbatical.

Dean: Right. Yeah.

Dan: But I. From my perception, I think he's done his year really well.

Dean: Yes, I do, too. People think he's been off, like, navel gazing and doing so I mean, he's been doing stuff, but not. You know, that's the great thing about a sabbatical is you do what you want to do. It's not. Well,

Dan: it's not that you're disengaged. You're not. You're just. You're just engaged with something else.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. You know, and that's what the sense. So I talked to him on an average of once a month. Babs and I did, you know, we caught up with him, but it was strict, strictly about talking about, you know, what he was discovering and.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, and everything like that. But it wasn't about. We never reported, you know, on the genius. I mean, I sent him a note after our last in. When would that have been? November, I think. Well, the big one. The big one in November.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And I said, your team has really done you proud.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: During the year. And I think they've all grown. And I think that you've got a lot of great backup support and other people who can run one of your meetings. And you probably, you know, it's probably a dozen people who you can feel totally confident that if for some reason you wanted them to handle a meeting, you could do that. You didn't know that the year before.

Dean: Right. Yeah.

Dan: You know who my. My champ was for that entire year was Howard Getson. Yes, Howard. But Timothy Paulson, too.

Dean: Timothy Paulson.

Dan: Tim at the end. Yeah. Yeah. I told Tim, you've been hiding. You've been hiding for 11 years. I said, yeah, you've been hiding. But he really. The. The last. When he did the big annual event in November, I surprised, I said, you know, you're amazing. You're amazing. Why have you been hiding? Yeah. Anyway, that's awesome.

Dean: Okay, thanks.

Dan: Yeah, I'm on next week. We're on next two weeks, so that's not a problem.

Dean: Me too.

Dan: Okay, bye.

Dean: Okay, I'll talk to you soon. Bye.