The Outsiders Who Built Toronto

Dean: Mr. Sullivan

Dan: Hi there, Mr. Jackson

Dean: There we are. There we are. There we are Yeah Welcome to Cloudlandia

Dan: Yes. Cloudlandia

Dean: You are in the, you're in the Toronto outpost of Cloudlandia?

Dan: Yes, I'm in-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: I'm in the basement where I'm using the fireplace- Swimming

Dean: pool? ...

Dan: to offset. no, I'm using the fireplace to offset the air conditioning

Dean: I love it. In the middle of a heat wave- Yeah ... you're in the basement with the fire.

Dan: This is a-

Dean: It's perfect

Dan: This is, th-this is just one of my assignments for making sure I get my first world, certifications. I'm a first world person. Oh

Dean: my goodness.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it really tells you the difference, you know, the, over the last, I guess two or three weeks they've had this big fair on the Mall in Washington, DC. It's called the United States State Fair, and all the ki- all the states I think had some sort of representation. Oh, wow.

Dean: Oh, so the big,

Dan: But they were like big tents, you know? They were like big tents and there- Yeah ... were 150, 150 of them. And

Dean: apparently-

Dan: So it must have covered the,

Dean: ... super

Dan: hot too ... must have been c- Yeah. But each of them was air-conditioned and the people- Oh ... came from overseas, was strike, the European Union said, or the, the European Union, maybe it was some French official said the reason why it's so hot in Europe this summer is because of all the air-conditioning in the United States, and I was- Oh, boy trying to put those two ideas, put it... I was trying to put those two ideas together, but they didn't quite, they didn't quite link up.

Dean: Maybe you need to do a triple play, see if that's-

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah ... the missing link there, you know?

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. But this is their reward for all the odd decisions they made about energy over the last 30 or 40 years. Yeah. I think the Germans had, nuclear plants, but they closed them all down, and I think they destroyed some of them. And, you knew the, gas line, the Russian gas line that went through the, underneath the Baltic,

Dean: was blown up. yep, I heard about that. Yeah.

Dan: They no- they now know it was Ukrainians who did it.

Dean: Oh, really? Okay.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: But they were c- I just heard- They were civilians ... heard so. They were, yeah, they were civilians. They weren't, It

Dean: wasn't a official

Dan: mission ... directly, it wasn't directly military people, but they... I mean, in Ukraine, what's the difference between the military and the civilian, you know? Yeah. Everybody has to fight. Yeah. Anyway, but, we just spent three or four days at the cottage up north. Yeah. It was very hot. And, but the air-conditioning was good.

Dean: That's great. So you're officially in the new cottage now? That's great. I love it. Yeah. I love it.

Dan: Yep. Yep.

Dean: Are you, when's your next, adventure up there?

Dan: Yeah, end of July, 26th. I think we're going for 10 days. We'll be,

Dean: yeah.

Dan: Very nice. 10, yeah.

Dean: Oh, very nice.

Dan: 10 days. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean: So good. Well, it

Dan: is, This is close, it's as close as Canadians get to religion.

Dean: Cottage country, yes. So July in, Yeah ... cottage country. I bet.

Dan: Having the cottage, ha- you know, having camp experience- Yeah.

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: when they were young. Yeah. You know, you get a Canadian talking about their early years experience of going to the family cottage or the-

Dean: ...

Dan: going to the camps, they grew up in the camps and, you can see their eyes start to water and there might be a little tear that comes down their cheek, you

Dean: know? Well, there's a whole, industry built up now around adult summer camps where, ... y- but in the, yeah, off seasons or whatever, where they have adults like nostalgically go and spend a weekend or a week at summer camp essentially and do the same things- ... that they did. So you know- r- play games and do all the stuff and have campfires and, yeah.

Dan: This mostly New E- New Eng- New England? It would be New England maybe?

Dean: I think it's- Mainly with ... yeah, I think probably the northeast, right? Like that's-

Dan: Yeah ...

Dean: would be a,

Dan: Massachusetts, New

Dean: York- That would be a thing ... Vermont. Right. And-

Dan: yeah, sort of area. Yeah.

Dean: Exactly. yeah.

Dan: Did you e- did you ever do that as growing up?

Dean: so yep. So I went to summer camp and then, and then when I really started playing, tennis, that was really what the summers,

Dan: ...

Dean: took over was the, you know- ... playing tennis all the time. But it's, so one of those things- Where was this? Like I agree- Where was this? ... going to. So, Where? ... the summer, camp that I went to was a place called Teen Ranch, and that is, that is a, you know, sports camp, hockey camp, tennis camp, for... Then they have a riding camp for, girls, like doing horseback, riding and stuff. Yeah. but it's funny because y- you mentioned it as one of the Canadian, you know, birthrights or whatever. It's like mandatory- ... I always describe playing hockey as mandatory military service. You know, you, at five years old they hand you your hockey stick and you gotta put in- ... at least five years of service, you know? Be- before you're able to make your choice. But that's, you know, that, that's part of the fun of, you know, growing up in... Everybody, y- all our memories of growing up are filtered through the lens of where we are, you know? Like, y- you, I was, I just finished up recording the video today for m- journal number one. As you know, I've been doing these, videos- ... unpacking my- Yeah, Babs said

Dan: she loved, Babs said she loved it.

Dean: Oh, good.

Dan: Yeah ...

Dean: the, the-

Dan: So you will have one, you have one early, influencer.

Dean: Oh, see. There you go. I love it.

Dan: ...

Dean: we, yeah, so part of the lens is what I realized was growing up, you know, everything was filtered through my lens of being in the Greater Toronto Area. Like, that's your thing. You are where you are, and our- ... our lens and access to information was filtered through the, you know, that Canadian lens, but also we were so adjacent to Buffalo that we had the US influence, lens too. Right? Like a uniquely, a unique perspective on, on how we get information. But we had no, there was no sort of global or contextual comparison, you know? If something made n- if something made national news, like the nat- CBC National News- ... at 6:00 PM- ... or whatever, that was like,that was big stuff, but you had no- Yeah, well, it was called, it was called- ... you had no other access.

Dan: It was called The National.

Dean: The National, exactly. But now you're- Yeah, the, the- ... describing, like, everybody-

Dan: it was at 6:00, and I think it was at 10:00.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: There was the CBC- ... National. And then when The National was over at 10:00, that was the end of television for the day.

Dean: Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Dan: they would play the, they would play the national anthem and-

Dean: ...

Dan: and you went on the test pattern till-

Dean: ...

Dan: 6:00 in the morning.

Dean: Yeah. So that, you know, when I, it wasn't until- Like

Dan: you.

Dean: Yeah. Just

Dan: like you.

Dean: It wasn't until, it wasn't until I started going back and forth to Florida that I started realizing a- all of Everything is made up of these little bubbles, right? Like, I, we would- ... stop in Dayton, Ohio, and-

Dan: ...

Dean: I realized there's the, you know, Dayton has its own newspaper and its own-

Dan: Yep ...

Dean: stuff. And then go to Knoxville, and Knoxville has the same- they've got their Knoxville- Yeah ... newspaper and the Knoxville radio, or, yeah, radio and TV stations, and- I bet you went through Macon all the way down.

Dan: I bet you went through Macon.

Dean: Macon. That's exactly right. Macon. And you start to realize that was where, I, I-

Dan: You stayed,you would stop at Stuckey's.

Dean: I bet. That's right. Get one of those, pecan logs. That's a road, that's a road trip treat right there.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah ...

Dean: but the, but that was the genesis- One trip

Dan: to Florida shorten, one, one trip to Florida and back, shorten your lifespan by one year.

Dean: That's probably true. But that was the beginning. You know, S- Charlotte, my, my GPT, my, my Charlotte AI today-

Dan: noticed that what I w- what I've been doing is combining things, and it reminded, I thought about it as like the triple play, Dan. About how sh- 'cause today's episode of the video that I shot was really about how I overlaid the discipline of market leaders and the one-to-one future and my lens of real estate, right?

Dean: Of how this all- ... fits, and I did- ... the combination of those, and that's how I... That was the genesis of the before unit, the during unit, and the after unit. And- ... that, Charlotte picked right up on that, that's really what it was, is the compounding creativity of combining things- that I was already, that I was already- ... thinking. It's very good.

Dan: Yeah. the, the interesting thing is that you're doing what, Angus Fletcher talked about- ... in his talk at Coach Con. You know, y- you're integrating your past.

Dean: Yes. Yeah, I love that.

Dan: which gives you a capability of being more decisive regarding your future. The more integrated your past, the more, focused and decisive your future will be.

Dean: ...

Dan: did you enjoy him? Did you enjoy him?

Dean: I really did, yeah. Yeah ... yeah, he was great. yeah, I wish I'd, gotten to spend a little more time with him, but, it seems- I got

Dan: him, I got him to talk in his original dialect.

Dean: I know, yeah, that was funny. Right, right, right. That's great. No, that's funny that you-

Dan: No, it was Mark Young ... caught up on that. It was actually Mark, it was actually Mark Young who discovered that. he did a podcast with Angus Fletcher- Okay ... and, you know, and,M- Mark's mother I think is from Scotland.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: So, Mark can do the, you know, sort of the Scottish brogue.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And, he got- He did a great job ... he got- That

Dean: was funny ...

Dan: and then he got, he got Angus to switch back to- ... his original way of talking, you know. And he makes, he makes a important- point about that in his book, and,you know, Primal Intelligence, and he talks about when he moved to the United States at a young age, he got bullied because of the way that he talked, so he had to learn how to talk American- ... so he wouldn't get bullied. Yeah.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's fair- really been interesting this summer in the States because you have, on the one hand, you have, the 250th anniversary, which one of the political parties is really celebrating. The other one, can't celebrate because the other political party is celebrating. Right, exactly. And you can't do what the other party's doing. Well, it's- Well, it's not the other party, it's the person leading the other party. You can't do anything- Yeah.

Dean: Right ...

Dan: that's, a leader of the other party. Yeah. And, but the other thing is FIFA. You know, you have the World Cup in North America, mostly in the United States. And, that's been a big deal because a lot of people from overseas came and spent the summer, you know, a month of the summer in the US, and they're all surprised at how friendly Americans are.

Dean: Yeah. Surprise.

Dan: Surprise. hey. You know, you know. Those of us who didn't go to college, didn't go to graduate school, are actually happy.

Dean: Haven't been indoctrinated. Right, right, right.

Dan: yeah, these are, you know, it's two-thirds of the voters, you know, we didn't actually go to university and learn how to be unhappy Americans, so we're just- ... you know, we're just happy to see you. Anything we can do for you? Want another basket of nachos?

Dean: Extra cheese, please. Yeah. That's funny.

Dan: Yeah. That's what I find, basically, about, you know, traveling. If I'm not near a university or I'm not near a government building, generally Americans are, you know, getting about things. You know, they're sort of- ... just doing what they do every day, and,

Dean: you know, talking about whatever they talk about every day, and- ...

Dan: that's it. Yeah.

Dean: That's great. Do you have,it's a very interesting thing that, you know, you have spent, like me, a lot of time both Canada and US. Did you have any, exposure to Canada when you were growing up? Like, or was it- just this big-

Dan: ...

Dean: thing to the north? No,

Dan: no. You know? Yeah. No, we grew up, you know, we were on the south shore of Lake Erie, so, Yeah ... you know, we got CBC on the radio. We got CBC- Okay ... on

Dean: the

Dan: te- television. And yeah, I always knew there... And there were these insects that came over the lake, every summer. They were called Canadian soldiers.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: And, dragonflies, actually. Oh, okay. They're dragonflies. Yeah, yep. But, yeah, we have a big, about eight miles from where I grew up, a big famous amusement park called Cedar Point.

Dean: Cedar Point,

Dan: right.

Dean: Yep.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I know about it, yeah.

Dan: Yeah, so number two continuous, amusement park. Okay. That's the name for it, amu- Amusement Park. So it's the second con- second longest continuous-

Dean: Let me guess, is

Dan: Coney Island- ... amusement park in the United States ... the first? Somewhere in New England, yeah, probably New York. Oh, so was it. Could be Coney, Co- Coney Island ... could be No- Yeah ... yeah, Co- Coney Island.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And, we would go there, and, I think it was during July, early, late June, early July, you'd get this infestation of, dragonflies, and they, we called them Canadian soldiers-

Dean: ...

Dan: because they, they came from the north side of Lake Erie. Yeah. No, we were pretty familiar with, Canada. I remember watching their version of football, you know, the Canadian Football League.

Dean: Oh, so you would get the CFL, So who would be- CFL ... the team that was closest to... Hamilton probably.

Dan: yeah, yeah, I think the, I mean, the ones you, I think the big, teams back then were Winnipeg and Edmonton. I think the, they were two famous teams. Yep. And of course lot, the, the quarterbacks were always American. You know, they- Yeah, the, skill positions were basically Americans, and then the others were Canadians. They have a rule how many Americans you can have on a team, a Canadian-

Dean: Oh, got it ...

Dan: a

Dean: club. Wow. Yeah,

Dan: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. So I was kind of familiar with it. There was, I think there were ferries from Sandusky, Ohio, that, would go across the lake. Yeah, we were familiar with it. But it wasn't until- 1963. So I graduated from high school in 1962, and I, met someone who, in my first year away from home, who, had been from Toronto, lived in Washington, and I came to Toronto. And Toronto was totally dry then. And so, the blue laws, they were called the blue laws, the, ... and, on Sunday there was no restaurants open, there were no theaters open, there was no sports games. It was

Dean: a day of rest.

Dan: It was-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: it was a day of rest, yeah. So, so Toronto was run by the Methodists, by the Methodists- ... and, and that was it. You, the only place you could eat on a Sunday was a restaurant in a hotel.

Dean: Okay. And

Dan: they... Yeah, so anyway, and I arrived on, I'm just trying to think Early in July, so it's 2026. That was 1963. So thir- 63 years ago. I arrived here and I stayed at the Windsor Arms. Windsor Arms Hotel.

Dean: Yeah. Right.

Dan: Yeah. But it was before it became a big deal. It was the old version of the Windsor Arms, and then there was a man who took over, took it over and he completely- Was

Dean: it in the same-

Dan: made it in- ...

Dean: the same location?

Dan: Yeah, same place. Sa- Yeah ... same place. Yeah. Same place. You know what? That's one of

Dean: the,

Dan: It was the hub. It was the- Yeah ... cultural hub of the city. Yeah. Really? Okay. That's where the stars- Yeah ... that's where the stars stayed. And they li- they had a lot of neat restaurants on that street. You know, they had about five or six restaurants in the hotel. Okay. And St. To- St. Thomas Street, just off the main street.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Right.

Dean: yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I remember- Yeah ... one of my favorite, I remember we did, we had dinner in the Chef's Table in, the Windsor- ... Arms, you and I and-

Dan: That was downstairs, downstairs, downstairs.

Dean: Is that where it was? B- the,

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah. In the restaurant there. It was fantastic. Yeah. Well,

Dan: yeah. Well, the Windsor Arms had one, two, three, four, five, five different eating areas. Wow. When it was really popular they had-

Dean: ...

Dan: I remember I was, had breakfast one day and Garth Drabinsky was, sitting at a table close to us, and he was-

Dean: Wow.

Dan: he was a, great entrepreneur who,was sloppy about his books. You know, he was-

Dean: Yes ... sloppy. Yeah. I

Dan: remember

Dean: him as,

Dan: Victor sari- He was a bit sloppy but- ...

Dean: as

Dan: they say. Right ... yeah. But he would've, you know, his idea was a great idea. He, he was going to, He's the one who refurbished the,

Dean: Pantages

Dan: well, he sor- yeah, Pantages Theater, but what he did is there were two theaters. There was, there was a ground floor theater and there was another theater above it. And, he was the one who discovered it, discovered that- ... there was another whole theater. It was a, you know, it was a live play theater. But it had been shut down at one time and then the, the bottom theater got divided into five little movie theaters. Oh, yeah. So he bought it and then he refurbished it, and when they, discovered, they were going through walls and all of a sudden there was a stairway. And he discovered that there was this whole Winter Garden Theatre. This was an old vaudeville theater. And it was intact. It had been completely closed down.

Dean: Wow.

Dan: 1,000, 1,200 seats, you know, I mean a good size theater So he refurbished both of them and turned it into Pantages Theater

Dean: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: And then he took over a theater in New York and completely refurbished the hotel. it was called the Ford Theater because Ford Motor Company, ... put some money into it, and it was beautiful. And then what he was gonna do is to create, plays. He was gonna create plays, and then they, he would have theaters all across North America. And he would own the theaters, but he would also own the plays, so he would continually... And I thought it was a great idea. I thought it was, but he was sloppy with his, bookkeeping.

Dean: yeah. It, that's, it's one of my memories, of-

Dan: You got... Yeah, a- actually, one of the more entrepreneurial of all entertainment business people in my experience in Canada was Garth Drabinsky. And then he- he created the entire, the entire, movie theater chain. What's the movie theater chain? What was the name of it? it

Dean: was- Cineplex

Dan: Odeon ... Cineplex. Cineplex Odeon. Yeah.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah, and that's really where he made his money. He made his money- Okay ... on the theater. yeah. That's interesting. he was g- going c- I was very sad when he, got into trouble.

Dean: There's some really, interesting-

Dan: I've got a lot of ti- I've got a lot of time and interest for a person like that because he's-

Dean: ...

Dan: he's really creating, you know, some really new ideas, and I-

Dean: Well, there, that's what I was- ... you know, and every- that's what I was about to say about Toronto. Like, there was a lot of innovative entrepreneurial- ... thinkers. Like, your fr- Harry Rosen was one of those. I- Yeah ... think, and you think about, Mo-

Dan: Mo- Moses Znaimer

Dean: I was, that's exactly- Moses Znaimer ... what I was gonna say, was Citytv, of, ... you know, him making a bet on independent television. That was fantastic. And then he, of course, then started MuchMusic, which was the Canadian- ... equivalent of MTV.

Dan: ...

Dean: but I- Izzy Sharp r- started the Four

Dan: Seasons-

Dean: Izzy Sharp.

Dan: Four Seasons, yeah ...

Dean: in Toronto. Yeah. you know who I saw? You know who's in Yorkville now is Russell Oliver. Do you remember Russell Oliver? The, gold, "I buy your gold," that guy?

Dan: Oh, yeah. Yep.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yep. No, I passed one of his stores that's on r- it's right in my neighborhood. It's called Oliver's.

Dean: Yeah,

Dan: Oliver

Dean: Jewelry.

Dan: Yeah. yeah. Now

Dean: he's in- "

Dan: We'll pay you for your car." No, he said- For your gold ... I think said the... No, for your car. Oh, now he

Dean: buys cars. For your car. Okay. Well, he used to be- He buys

Dan: cars, yeah ...

Dean: it used to be just gold. Yeah. I,I interviewed him back in 1996. I was- ... in, in this Coming Up journal was one of the things. Yeah. And he w- he has a very interesting story. I mean, that was, he took a chance on, you know, running a ad in the,the Globe and Mail where he would-

Dan: put, you know, he spent, all, risked, you know, the, the money to, put up his ad in the, in the Globe and Mail, and he was selling, you know, gold jewelry. And then he took- ... a real chance on TV, and that's where Moses, Neimer, where he- ... started out on Citytv buying- ... television ads and became a total celebrity.

Dean: I mean, he was like- ... the Mo- Cash Man, you know? And then his commercials were so, so outrageous. Yeah. So out there, right? Like, "Oh, yeah." yep. "I'm Russell Oliver- Yeah ... and I buy your gold." You have 14 karat gold- Yeah ... your old broken jewelry, even your gold teeth. Bring it down and I'll give you cash on the spot. And he had all the cash in his hands and, but he told me he- You

Dan: know, you know we're miss- we're missing one absolutely great entrepreneur, probably the greatest of the entrepreneurs-

Dean: Dan

Dan: Sullivan? ... from that period.

Dean: Oh.

Dan: no. He came later. He came later.

Dean: He came later.

Dan: he came later. yeah. He was just, taking notes at that time.

Dean: Oh,

Dan: right. Anyway, it was Ed Mirvish.

Dean: Yes, I was, I, when you were talking about- Honest Ed's ... when you were talking about the theater, I have, in, sixth grade, we went to, all in junior high, we used to have like a, a theater night where we would go to see a play or a musical or the opera or there was always something that we, went down to see. And that was, he, there was, some, he had an organ grinder, restaurant, the- Yeah ... Spaghetti Factory- Yeah ... there. Yeah. And we would go there,

Dan: That was right on King Street ...

Dean: for d- it was a real experience, right? And then he

Dan: had- Yeah, Ed's, Ed's Ware- no, it was Ed's Warehouse. Okay. That's where you went. And it was right next to the Royal Alex. It was-

Dean: Yes ... in the block from the- Exactly ... the Royal Alex That's right.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: And it was an- Royal Alex ... experience. It was an experience to go there. And then,

Dan: ...

Dean: I remember he had, he was kind of like a merchant, right? Like a, had a m- I don't know what you would call it, but his place on Bloor- Well, Honest

Dan: Ed's

Dean: Honest Ed's Honest Ed's. Yeah. And it was- Yeah. Yeah ... just,

Dan: I lived on, I lived on, what street did I live on? So I was on, he was right at the corner of Spadina and Bloor.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah. And I lived on, trying to think of the street I lived on. It's about two blocks away. Okay. But it was like the first real discount store.

Dean: Yeah,

Dan: right. Discount store. Yeah. You know, and, yeah, it was almost like a half of a block, the entire store was like half. It was

Dean: big, yeah. And you'd walk in and there were just- It was big ... bins full of- Yeah ... of stuff, and you couldn't believe the prices on the stuff. But- Yeah.

Dan: Well, it's really interesting right now, every live theater in Toronto, so there's the Royal Alex, there's, Royal Alexandra, there's the Princess of Wales, there's the St. Lawrence Centre, there's the,

Dean: Four Seasons. what's that one called?

Dan: no, I'm just thinking of the, so the,

Dean: the

Dan: Winter Garden Theatre- ... the Pantages, they're all owned by the Mirvish family. Oh, okay. David Mirvish, the son. Yeah.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's an interesting thing. And then the other one is the,Shoppers Drug Mart, started. That was the- Kotkin family, I think. I'm not quite sure- ... the pronunciation. But you know what they all have in common, everybody we've named so far over the last 15 minutes? They're all Jewish. They're all

Dean: Jewish. Is that right? Oh, that's interesting.

Dan: Yeah. It was entirely the Jewish population. And you know- it, for example, that, if you were, a doctor, a lawyer, or an accountant, you would- Yeah ... not be hired in Canada. So they started their own clinics, they started their own law firms, they started their own accounting firms, and they're the, were real players now in, in Canada.

Dean: that's really-

Dan: But that, that is a great period. You were- Yeah ... really young then. You were, so you were in your 20s, teens and 20s when this- ... was all happening.

Dean: That's right.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: That was my first kind of thing of paying,starting to see and pay attention to these things. Yeah the other, the other thing I remember

Dan: as like a really- And also the real estate, the real estate companies too, the diamonds. The, you know, the diamonds- Yeah ... were one of the big real es- Almost all the big real estate companies were- ... Jewish. Yeah. Yeah. I think the whole, birth of modern Toronto is really the Jewish influence. Jewish influence that happened in the- Birth of

Dean: western,the- '60s, '

Dan: 70s and '80s.

Dean: I think about, I think about- Loblaws was a big, thing. Yeah. What was the family that started- Still big. it was- still big ... the Weston, right? Galen Weston. Yeah. Those were- The Wes- But

Dan: the- The Westons, yeah, the Westons are sort of the WASP family, and-

Dean: Okay

Dan: you know, he- '

Dean: Cause I remember- If there was one it was- ... the face of that was, Dave Nichols was the- Yeah, yep ... well, the president- President ... of Loblaws.

Dan: He was

Dean: the president, yeah. And he was really- Yeah ... one of those first, forward-facing presidents that really-

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: I think about- Yeah ... the lessons of what he did, like really bookending by going on one end the No Name brand, where they just had-

Dan: yep

Dean: in a yellow container, corn, or peas- Yep ... or flour or sugar. Whatever it is, your staples that didn't need any branding, they branded very cleverly the No Name brand, which was the lowest cost, type of things. But on the other end of that, he had President's Choice, which was- ... a premium brand.

Dan: Very high.

Dean: Yeah, yep. Which was often better than, better quality than the leading brands, but, at a slightly, slightly maybe lower, better value, but high quality. Yep. I remember the decadent chocolate chip cookie, that was what started it, right? The President's Choice. He searched the land- ... to find the best in these categories, and then they private labeled their own, things. And I remember his, him doing the, these sauces that he would, do, his travels, right? The tastes of, you know, Tastes of Asia or whatever, yep ... things where he would do all of his travels, and he'd come back and he'd put it in a sauce that you could, that you could get. And then of course his newsletter, the, the President's- Yep Report. It was such brilliant, m-marketing, building- Marketing ... loyalty. Yeah,

Dan: yeah.

Dean: And positioning- Yeah ... him as an advocate, you know, as your- ... as your advocate. You were, you know, the, he was the grocer that had your back kind of thing, right? That's a very- yeah ... pers- he personalized the,

Dan: Yeah

Dean: who, the, it, was there... Am I getting this right? But was, there was a competing grocery brand- Yeah,

Dan: and I was trying

Dean: to- Steinberg's, right? I was

Dan: trying to think. no, it wasn't Steinberg's. It was, another Wasp sort of name, and I-

Dean: Well,

Dan: A&P ... can't remember because it-

Dean: A&P

Dan: was the

Dean: other-

Dan: No, A&P ... Yeah. Yeah. no, it was a Canadian, It was like, Eaton's and Simpson's. You know, you had- Right, yeah, ... these competitive stores. But that was Wasp. It wasn't, But there was another, thing, and then it just disappeared or it renamed. and everything. I can't think, I can't think of what the other- ... the other name was. Yeah. It just disappeared. Oh.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, I mean, it was like when you're a kid, there, you were either a Chevy kid or you were a Ford kid. You know, you either-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: you either like Fords or you like Chevy. You know, there was

Dean: no- yeah. Yeah.

Dan: There, there was no compromise between the two brands. You were 100%- Yeah ... one or 100% the other. But those were exciting times. So see- Yeah ... I came in the '70s. I, my first year in Toronto was '71. and all these people were just at the beginning of their influence. It was the '70s and '80s that they, they really put Toronto on the map.

Dean: Yeah. That's really, and I mean, it was really kind of, yeah, Canada. I mean- Canada ... yeah, that's, no, I mean, it's funny when you think about, like, that, whatever was happening in Toronto was essentially Canada, right? I mean, that's the- Yeah ... that, that's the big- Yeah ... thing. That was the lucky- Well,

Dan: no, No, it was Montreal until 1976. Montreal was the golden city. Like, the he- headquarters for all the big corporations was in Montreal, okay? And, and you had all these, political, big political guys who were, coming up, Trudeau and, you know, Chretien and, you know- ... th- there was all these, bigger than life people, on the Canadian scene who were all Quebecers. They started-

Dean: ...

Dan: in the '60, '60s. But, then in '76 in Quebec, they put in the language laws that French had to be the dominant language, and within about 10 years, all the major corporations in, Canada moved their headquarters from, Montreal to Toronto. That's when- Oh, yeah ... Toronto really took off. Toronto- Okay ... really took off. And yeah. And Montre- Montreal is sort of like a European city that you would go to now. Toronto, yeah. I mean, you wa- you don't have to travel as far. You know, you can just take a one-hour, two-hour flight, and you're in a city that's essentially like Europe, you know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But they have no import- no, there's no importance. They have, you know, it's like a foreign country that is right in the middle of the North American continent, and, you go there. But, they have no, y- you know, they have no significance whatsoever. You don't pay any attention to what the Quebecers think or want and everything. I guess that's the way they want it, and it's, you know, it's kind of- Just the way, but Toronto is going, Canada is going through a weird period right now, and, and, it's, partially, you know, a reaction to Trump par- partially- ... the, what's going on in Canada because, you know, Tr- Trump, you know everybody is a freeloader who-

Dean: Right

Dan: if you're not on board with us, you're a freeloader

Dean: and- Right ...

Dan: we're gonna, we're gonna charge you, Trump. But it's more than that, is that there was this unique period from the end of the Second World War till the 1991, 1991, and something major happened in the world, and you had the Soviet Union. And Canada was the country that was between the United States and the Soviet Union. Geographically, there was this huge expanse that separated the Soviet Union from the United States. And so they had a real importance. It was like a strategic importance. I mean, it wasn't really based on anything except geography, but the Americans, basically treated Canada like a very important country in the world for roughly 40, 46 years. A- and then when the Soviet Union collapsed, that was the end of their importance. But the Canadians kept going along as if they were still important to America.

Dean: Ah, that's interesting.

Dan: and they weren't, a- and they weren't. But nobody would say it until Trump came along, and Trump, you know, never is very shy about what he thinks about things. And he says,oh, you must be the head of the 51st state, Canada, 51st state." Yeah. Oh, man. "You must be the governor of the..."

Dean: Yeah. Oh, that's the funny thing, right? And,

Dan: and, you can't imagine because s- ever since I've been here, you're very clear that Canadians are not Americans. they're more, dignified. They're more higher sense of morality. They're more intelligent, you know, and, they're more, what you, would you say? They have a more of a sense of where the world is going. You know, so there's always this attitude of superiority that, yeah, the Americans got all this stuff, but interior from the inside point of view, we're really superior human beings to the Americans. Yeah, so.

Dean: I had a really interesting, conversation-

Dan: Meanwhile, the, meanwhile, the economy of Texas is 50% bigger than the economy of Canada.

Dean: Yeah. I had a really interesting convers-

Dan: Did you see, by the way, did you see the drone show that they put on in Texas last night?

Dean: I did not.

Dan: Look it up- Okay ... as soon as our phone call is over.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: They had 2,500 drones that acted in complete cooperation with each other to create pictures of the American eagle. They took- Wow ... the flag of the United States, and it was- Yeah ... all happening over, I think over Dallas. I think it must've been Dallas. And, but, all, every one of the 2,500 drones could change color, could change position, and everything else. Wow. It's really very r- remarkable.

Dean: Yeah. I bet.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: that's a m- magic of, you know, s- hive or swarming, technology. I saw a- Oh, yeah ... documentary about the swallows or whatever those birds that all seem to fly in perfect unison, right, creating this wave of things. And I under- Yeah ... I understand that they are genetically coded to fly, y- you know, a certain distance away from each other- Another bird kind of thing. yeah. that's kind of like- You know where you see it ... it creates this force field. Yeah. You know where you

Dan: see it in Toronto is right at the bottom of the Don Valley.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: When the Don Valley becomes The Gardiner.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, right down-

Dean: ...

Dan: thing. The, for some reason, every night at about 5:00 or 6:00, there's hundreds and thousands of them. Oh, wow. And they just are all in a flock. They're all- ... in a flock. They're doing it, Tim. Yep.

Dean: Very interesting.

Dan: Yep.

Dean: Huh. Wild. Tim, what's the latest in the adventures of turning- Yesterday Creating Tomorrow

Dan: Yeah, we're almost finished. we're, we're within about three or four weeks of having the book finished. And, today is 215. I've had 215 great yesterdays. And, and it's an interesting thought because everybody I talk about it that I'm working with adapts it within about a week. Yeah. They start doing it. So it's an interesting idea. I mean, it's not an idea that's hard to explain because everybody all h- everybody all has the basic working materials. They have yesterday- ... they have today, and they have tomorrow. And what I say to them, just use today to create something that when you wake up tomorrow morning was a great yesterday. That's all. Yeah. That's the entire, that's the entire trick. And then have... And do that for three days, do that for 10 days, do that for 25 days, do that for 100 days- and watch what happens to your thinking- ... when you just adapt that. And, but in order to make it work, you've gotta create a scoring system.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: so we have a little tool- ... that allows you to look at your day and give yourself a score, and the score to start with,we're just giving you a type of scoring system that will work, that things that you do just habitually, you know, and you've been doing them all your life- like brushing, brushing your teeth, shaving- ... you know, whatever. They, each of them gets a score of one, okay? And then there are some things which your judgment on this, but, they're way more important than something you do every day. It's probably something unusual, but it's not career changing. You're not, you know, you're not care- changing the, the, you're not changing the direction of your life with this, and th- that'll get a five. your, your- Yeah ... your judgment on this. And then there are some things like, for example, the thing that you just did, you did a video of one of the, your journals. that's easily a 10, could be a 25. Depending on your sense about it.

Dean: Yep.

Dan: And then at the end of the day, you just add up all your score, and that's your score for today. Okay? And then you wake up tomorrow morning and you have another today to work with, and what do you think? You're gonna get a lower score or you're gonna get a higher score?

Dean: Yeah I think, I mean, you're always aiming to get the, the, a higher score, right?

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: This is- Yeah. Yeah ... I've got my... I've been, you know, looking at my zones and I have a, seven, you know, there's seven things that are the, that are the checkbox, like measuring the quantifiable,

Dan: things. 'Cause I think it, I've been really embracing the, the natural cadence of a week being a- thing. But then the day is, of course, the, there's natural breaks, right? So my- ... I have a seven, my seven step kind of for just this zone, I call this- ...

Dean: zone one of the, the day starts at 10:00 PM the night before. So phone-

Dan: ...

Dean: in the box, in the, in the- ... safe at by 10:00 PM. Lights out by 11:00 PM. Wake up at 7:30 at the latest. Wheels up

Dan: Eight and a half hours at least. Yeah

Dean: Yep. Wheels up at 8:00 AM, ... which is the, it's funny how setting this target, like I- I've realized this for, I don't know why it gamifies it or whatever, but the game is-

Dan: yeah, it gamifies

Dean: the game

Dan: is

Dean: that-

Dan: anytime you quantify a quality, you're gaming.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You're gamifying. That's what gamifying is. you're quantifying what is essentially a quality.

Dean: Yep. Then, so wheels up at 8:00 AM and the, the game is that the clock in my Tesla has, can read no more than 8:00 AM. Like, that's the target, and we've gotten- ... into this total rhythm of being, getting in the car e- exactly as the, clock is turning to 8:00 AM. That's the game. Yep. Yep. If we can see that, and we've done that perfectly now. Then it's- ... straight to Honeycomb and I have the same breakfast in the morning. And then at 8:59 we turn on the camera and I record for 10, 12 minutes, one video- Yeah ... with one insight, and then I'm in my seat at Concord Coffee by 9:30, that's the perfect, rhythm cadence, for it. So there's seven, you know, seven things. If I get all seven of those things, that is a perfect, zone one for my, Yeah days. That, that collection of those is going to create- That

Dan: all happens before noon. That all happens before 12 o'clock.

Dean: That all happens by 9:30 in the morning. Yes, exactly.

Dan: 9:30. Oh, 9:00 to 9:30.

Dean: Well, because that-

Dan: Well, when does the phone come out of the box?

Dean: Noon. That comes, happens at noon. Noon. Yeah,

Dan: that's right.

Dean: Yeah. Well, now my next focus now is zone two, which is that, you know, kind of 9:00 till, 9:00 AM till noon is- ... where I think the biggest opportunity for me is now. I've really done a successful job of carving that time out and creating the habit of getting in position. So n- nine, by 9:30, I've done all of those things that we talked about. I've had breakfast, I've shot a video. Now I have from 9:30 till noon is completely available for-

Dan: ...

Dean: me doing my 50-minute focus finders and my-

Dan: Yep ...

Dean: mo- most proactive creative work.

Dan: Yep.

Dean: And what I'm finding is that, th- this is my next focus now is to figure out how to make sure that I'm doing the most valuable thing that I can do in that time, right? Because I don't have to do anything in that time. It's not, there's no urgency or, you know, deadline around it. Not like- On Sunday morning, I know that I have, you know, I'm here at 11:00 AM and we dial in and there you and I are. That synchronous and scheduled-

Dan: ...

Dean: no way to procrastinate it or anything. We both just show up and then something wonderful is gonna happen. We,

Dan: we t- we talk about something.

Dean: We talk about something. Exact- we think about our thinking, Hunter. Yeah. And that, yeah, so that's ... I was curious for your, you know, scoring system and your days, how much of your time is Where you are proactively like, getting, doing something that is something that you want to do as opposed to something that is synchronous and scheduled, involves other people. Like I know- Yeah. ... for you, same kind of thing, right? If you have a, if you have a connection Zoom or you have a workshop day, that's locked in- ... and you know what you need to do. But on the days where you have discretion, how do you- ... structure to make sure that tomorrow you've had a great yesterday?

Dan: Yeah. Well, the big thing i- it isn't so much about the time that you spend doing it. So- it's, the significance of what you're doing. So I wanna- ... talk about this. You know, it might- ... take 15 minutes, but it has significance and that's usually, It has impact either on my team members or it has impact on my clients.

Dean: Okay.

Dan: So those are my, those are my... In the strategic coach world it's either team members or it's entrepreneurs, you know? So I do that. And, in some, some,some days I really haven't done anything significant, before dinner. So I've gone the whole day-

Dean: ...

Dan: and I've, y- you know, and, you know, I've got some scores on the scoreboard that, you know, they, you know, I, you know, I got ready and I brushed my teeth and I shaved and, you know, did all the different things and, there's this, you know, there's just a series of about 15 or 20 activities that every day- that's how I start my day. And it's worth about 80 points. It's worth about 80 points, you know, the- ... the whole thing. And it involves Babs because-

Dean: ...

Dan: she's my constant companion on all this. But then, you know, one of the things I do, I make sure, once a week that I have a clear sense of what s- Going to be required m- required of me for the next seven days, you know, where- I have to produce something or I have to show up for something. So I'm pretty- Okay ... pr- pretty clear about that. And I get points for doing that. I get points for making sure... I call it high beams. You know, high beams. You-

Dean: ...

Dan: when you're driving, you put on high beams and you see-

Dean: Put on the high beams and see what's coming for the week.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: But your high beams- Yeah ... so if I'm hearing this right, your high beams are calibrated to look out seven days, and that's really the- Yeah, seven days ... the thing. Okay.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Do you do this in- Yeah. Always thinking ... do you do this in a, as a form of weekly review kind of thing? Like, do you do it at, on- no on Sunday, for instance, or? It's just, it's just...

Dan: Yeah, like on, on Sunday I would see, the period until next Saturday. On-

Dean: ...

Dan: Monday I'd see the period until next Sunday, you know? I-

Dean: Oh,

Dan: okay. Okay ... I just spend about fi- I just spend five minutes, I switch on the high beams. I say, "Remember-" And that way I don't get surprised short notice about something, you know- that right there. I'm aware of it, you know? But- you know, if it's three days away, I'm probably not gonna work on it till the, the day before, you know? Right, right, right. it's not

Dean: something...

Dan: so I do that. But the big thing is,one of the things where I can get a lot of points really quickly is to use AI, and I've made a fundamental change with AI from Perplexity to Claude 4.6. You know? And, and that was- Cool ... Perplexity's, what Perplexity did, it gave me a dropdown where I could either use ChatGPT, I could use Gemini, or I could use Claude. And I've heard a lot of good things about Claude, so I just switched. So even though I'm on Perplexity, I'm actually working with Claude. Okay. And, it's just got a really terrific language. You know, its use of words is really great.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So I'll think of something in a day. So yesterday I just thought of something halfway through the afternoon, and I was thinking about the, Democratic Socialist Party- ... in the United States now. In New York City especially, with the mayor and- ...

Dean: those

Dan: three members of Congress because they're going... They're, they won the primary and of course they'll be elected in-

Dean: ...

Dan: November. They'll be elected. And they're, th- they're a unique set of people because they're all highly educated. They all come from fairly affluent, if not wealthy, families, and they are whiners.

Dean: They're just

Dan: complete and total whiners. And so it's affluent, entitled, ungrateful whiners who are taking over, you know- Yes. Yeah ... the De- Democratic Party. I found that- ... an interesting thought. And my sense is that, it goes back to the promise that the university and college industry has been making for the last 50 years, that all you have to do is be smart enough to get into college, put in your three or four years, and the rest of your life is taken care of. You know? it's like the, you won't have to use the stairs. It'll be all escalator once you get your col- your college degree, you know?

Dean: Yeah. Yeah.

Dan: and somewhere in the last 15 or 20 years, that, that promise is no longer true, and what you do in college really doesn't tell you anything about what's gonna happen after college. And there's a lot of pissed off- 20-year-olds, 20 and 30-year-olds right now

Dean: Yeah

Dan: that I bought in, I bought into your promise and you're not delivering, so we're going to, we're going to change the country. We're gonna change the world. Okay. So I wr- I said this is a really interesting topic, and so I did an entire P- Perplexity, article on it. You know, it took me about an hour and a half.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: You know, and everything. And, anytime I do that, I get an automatic 50 'cause I'm developing an entirely original new- Yes ... examination of something.

Dean: Okay. Yeah.

Dan: So Per- so AI is a really easy, fast way to get a lot of points.

Dean: Yeah. This is great. I mean, it's such- Yeah ... a good, a- and using it as a-

Dan: Like I could be- ... container ... I could be 7:30 at night, and I haven't really done anything special that day, but I get an idea- ... and I team up with AI, and b- an hour later I've got a complete three or four page article, you know?

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Laid out, or laid out properly, and I get 50 points before I go to bed, so.

Dean: That's great. I love it. I mean, I just- Yeah ... I love everything about that ... my game, my

Dan: game.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: My game, my scoring, you know?

Dean: Yeah. Did you ever see, there was a show, on TV, Dan, years ago called Whose Line Is It Anyway? Oh, yeah. And it was a funny show. Whose Line. So you remember... Yeah, well- No, it's called

Dan: Whose Your Line

Dean: That was a game show, but there was another- Oh improv show called Whose Line Is It Anyway? And it was- Right ... Drew Carey was the host of it. Yeah.

Dan: Yep, yeah.

Dean: And his whole thing, they used to assign random points to things, and he says, "Welcome to Whose Line Is It Anyway? where, th- everything's made up and the points don't matter." That's

Dan: the game

Dean: you're playing. He's- That's what you're describing.

Dan: no. Every- everything is made up. no. Yeah. No, my game is,every- everything's made up and the points do matter. And

Dean: the points do matter. There you go.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Oh, I

Dan: love it. Yeah, and so far I've done 215 days. This is day 200 and- Yeah ... this is actually day 215, and my average for the first 214 days is 106 points. This

Dean: is great. Well, I'm gonna add that to my,I started- Yeah calculating out these things in terms of, I like your idea of high beams, 'cause I'm thinking about it as, you know, weeks. I've been-

Dan: Yeah ...

Dean: we're coming up- A

Dan: week is a good, yeah, a g- a week is good. Seven days

Dean: ahead, you know. We're coming up to, we're coming up to football season, and-

Dan: Yeah

Dean: the, you know, I thought about the elegance of, you know, the, the NFL and college football, that the only thing- ... they're focused on is this w- it's a weekly cadence. They've got 17 w- ... 17 weeks, which is, you know, basically 100 days of focus on, one week at a time. The only thing they're focused on is their upcoming, game. Yep. And that's, it's a very, there's a lot of, there's, I don't know, there's a elegant, order to that. Yeah. And everything is

Dan: measured. Well, and the other thing about it is, as, the other thing about it is that, it's all professional now since they brought in- Yeah ... NIL. And like, I mean, there's, you know, like if you're a Big 10 quarterback, you're making- Yeah ... 6 million, you're making 6 million a year.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: It's- But, you know, you know, it's not showing up in football yet, but it's showing up in NCAA basketball- Okay ... that you're starting to get, teams now showing up where they have four-year starters, you know? For a bi- while it was freshman and gone. In other words, junior-

Dean: Yeah, one and done ...

Dan: and then freshman and gone.

Dean: One and done.

Dan: One and done.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: And now you're seeing, the championship game, you're seeing they, they have first-string players now, this is their fourth year, and it's kind of better basketball-

Dean: Yeah

Dan: because they've, they-

Dean: And they're better off ... they're not just- Because often they're, if they're a star their, their NIL deal is gonna be better than their rookie contract in, in,

Dan: Oh, yeah ...

Dean: many situations. Well,

Dan: not, they might even... I mean, so few actually make it to the big- Yeah ... league. I mean, pro football, pro basketball- Yeah doesn't re- doesn't really matter. But, you know, if you have four years and you're making $4 or $5 million every year, I mean, I mean, you know, you'd never-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: if you could, you'd never leave school. You know- Right ... you'd never.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: So what I'm seeing is that, within 10 years, the universities will be disconnected from the teams. Like Ohio State-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: will be a professional corporation.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: A professional corpor- And the football will just have this vast,

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: farm system. They've always had f- you know-

Dean: ...

Dan: the NFL has always had this vast talent system, but they never had to pay for anything for it, you know? Yeah. And,but it's changing. You know, it's really changing the, the world. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's- But I always thought they were sort of like slave labor, you know, the, the-

Dean: Yeah ...

Dan: co- college basketball, football.

Dean: Yeah. It didn't seem- yeah ... right, for sure.

Dan: No, it didn't seem right. And now it's... And no- and now you're getting big investors. You're getting private- Yeah ... equity firms that are investing. Like, Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban invested $25 million in Indiana's-

Dean: Indiana ...

Dan: football team. Indiana football team. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. You know, I like it.

Dean: You know, my former, neighbor, the- And the, Kelly, Mr. Kelly lived right across the street from me, and he, when he died, he left $20 million to University of Indiana to start the, for the Kelley School of Business, thing. He's the guy that founded, well, he founded, Steak 'n Shake, Steak 'n Shake- yeah ... restaurants, yeah.

Dan: He deserves to be remembered.

Dean: Yeah. So there you go.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Anyway- All right, Dan, we did it.

Dan: Yep.

Dean: Full points. Full points for today's, discussion. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah. Next week I'll be reporting in from Chicago, so- I love

Dean: it I'll be

Dan: in... Yeah.

Dean: All right. I'll be right here. I'll talk to you then. Okay. Thanks, Dan. Okay.

Dan: Bye. Bye.